Soviet aid during the War of Independence

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
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Peter H
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Soviet aid during the War of Independence

Post by Peter H » 26 Feb 2007 09:14

Have anyone any further details on this?

http://www.dzkk.tsk.mil.tr/english/Tarihce.asp
The Turkish Grand National Assembly Government made an agreement with Russia to procure supplies. The Trabzon Shipping Detachment, which was founded on 21 September 1920, was renamed the "Trabzon Naval Shipping Command" with the directive issued by the Ministry of National Defense on 26 October 1920....

....Throughout the Turkish War of Independence, 300,000 tons of supplies of every kind were transported to the Turkish Harbors, particularly from the Russian Black Sea Ports by 26 ships and boats of various sizes, to support the military fronts in Anatolia.

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Post by stevebecker » 26 Feb 2007 23:37

Mate,

Interesting,

You'd think that the Russians had enough problems of their own with the fighting between the Red and the White Armies.

S.B

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 27 Feb 2007 08:06

Ali Fuat Cebesoy's role in attaining Soviet aid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Fuat_Cebesoy


According to here as well:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-13888717.html
The Soviet government overlooked the murder of 15 Turkish communists in Turkey on Jan 28, 1921 because it regarded the new Turkish national government of Mustafa Kemal as anti-imperialist and an indispensable friend in the struggle against the Allies. Mustafa Kemal first allowed the Communist Party of Turkey to be established to win Soviet aid against the Allies but then may have caused its leaders to be killed to prove to the Soviets that a viable communist movement was not likely in Turkey, though his exact role in the deaths is unknown.

Mustafa Suphi,the Turkish Communist Party leader:

http://english.sol.org.tr/index.php?yazi_id=775

Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 01 Mar 2007 13:24

Mustafa Kemal had no allies during the War of independance. All great powers were againts him. After the fights at Cilicia, Antep and Maras the french understood that it was their benefit to make peace with Mustafa Kemal. Ankara Agreement. They left occupied Turkish territories accept Hatay. Mustafa kemal on the other hand left Syria to French. Mustafa Kemal send his calss mate and best friend Ali Fuat (Cebesoy. We know him from Syrian Front) to Mocow as ambassador. Sovied help Kemalist with money, guns and ammunition. But Mustafa Kemal's desire was not to be good friends with Russia. After the peace at Loussane he cut the relations.
A foreign journalist asked Mustafa Kemal "Are you a Bolsevic?"
He answered:
"We are not Bolschevic or socialist. We are patriots who base their opinions on Turkish Nationalizm."

NikosV
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Post by NikosV » 11 Apr 2007 15:07

!EDIT!
I add the following preceding statement:

page 329(bottom)
"Gentlemen! The last telegram in code that we sent to Rauf Bey referred to the leaders of our organisation in Istanul, it is"

Image

Ataturk, Mustafa Ghazi Kemal.The Great Speech. Ataturk Research Center (Ankara; 2005) 330.

I think it is an example of Russian support funneled through the French even though in Nutuk(The Great Speech) it is presented that they were captured by the French from Akbas depot. What would that depot be doing having so much Russian weaponry?
Last edited by NikosV on 12 Apr 2007 04:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Auseklis
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Post by Auseklis » 11 Apr 2007 15:54

The text you provided is talking about russian weapons (captured during the war) in turkish possesion, only guarded by the french. The text claims that the turkish government agreed to hand over part of them to the allies for the supply of the Wrangel-Army. So you provided an example for turkish war-aid to the Whites in southern russia, not otherway around.

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Post by NikosV » 11 Apr 2007 16:14

Where does it mention Wrangel-Army or anything you say in that text I posted? It says that the weapons were French guarded and that the Nationalist Turkish forces led by Hamid Bey attacked a French guarded depot, taking them to the interior of Anatolia most likely for the Kemalist forces.

The Kemalists were on friendly terms with the Bolsheviks, not the Whites. The Bolsheviks disliked Greece at this period(Allied campaign in Crimea).

I have no idea where your post is coming from Auseklis, honestly.

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Post by Auseklis » 11 Apr 2007 17:25

Sorry, I don't understand you.

What the text is saying is:
1. Akbas was a store of russian build weapons (captured by the turkish during the war (WWI)), guarded by french troops (because turkey has lost the war and the allies took control of turkish weapons stores).
2. The turkish government agreed to let the allies transfer the weapons back to russia for the Warngel-Army fighting in southern russia with allied support. The Kemalists had agreed to this first, but then decided else and took possesion of the weapons.

So this text is about allied war-aide to russia, but the weapons belongt to turkey since years...

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 12 Apr 2007 03:55

The text also reads to me as a Turkish cache of Russian weapons taken over by the French.

Moison-Nagant rifles would have been available from the French anyway--the Russian Brigades disarmed in France and Salonika in 1917 would have been a source as well.

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Post by NikosV » 12 Apr 2007 04:51

Auseklis, and others, sorry I was having tunnel vision. I kept re-reading the area of the text where it talked about the capture of the weapons by Hamid Bey, ignoring the top portion entirely. Also I have edited the post with the scanned document to include the preceding sentence, you may want to check it out.

Now to go point by point:
Akbas depot(European coast not far from Gelibolu) is guarded by the French
The Government(in Istanbul) promised to surrender some of the arms in this depot to the Allies
The Allies planned to send them to Wrangel's army
The Government(in Istanbul) received the consent of their organisation(the Turkish Nationalists) to let the Allies send their weapons to Wrangel
Koprulu Hamid Bey one of their commanders(The Turkish Nationalist commanders) seized this depot
Hamid and his men took these weapons and ammo to the interior of the country

So I feel the text is an example of what the Allies hoped to maybe send to Wrangel, but the Kemalists fairly easily seized the weapons from the Allies using duplicity and force.

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