Are We Forgetting Something?

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
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Are We Forgetting Something?

Post by Makedonija » 23 Apr 2007 10:07

I think this part of the forum are lacking something;

The end of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans.

The first country to wage war on the Turks where, Montengro, on October 5th, the Balkan War really kicked in when, Serbia,Bulgaria and Greece, got in they had battles, with Turkey nearly losing all, The war was ended with the Treaty of London on May 17 1913.

Now the Second Balkan War.
Though the Balkan allies had fought together against the common enemy, that was not enough to overcome their mutual rivalries. While Serbian and Bulgarian claims, or Serbian and Greek claims, could be compromised upon, Greek and Bulgarian claims proved irreconcilable. When the Greek army entered Solun. (Now Thessaloniki).After a series of negotiations Greece and Serbia signed a treaty of mutual defence against an attack on any part, not only Bulgarian but also Austro-Hungarian on May 19/June 1 1913. With this treaty a mutual border was agreed between the two and an agreement for mutual diplomatic support. Both countries decided to remain on the defensive and not attack Bulgaria. Still the Serbians kept the entire Vardar Macedonia because of the majority of population and historical claims. Claiming that the Serbians did not recognize the border treaty they signed, it was Bulgaria that first attacked, without formally declaring war. On June 17, 1913 they attacked the Serbian army in Gevgelija and then the Greek army in Nigrita.While the Serbian army faced superior Bulgarian forces and had problems, the Greek army was more successful. Retreating according to plan for two days while Solun was cleared of remaining Bulgarian detachments, the Greek army counterattacked and defeated the Bulgarians at Kilkis-Lahanas. However, the Greek army did not enter the city of Serres in time to prevent it being razed by irregular Bulgarian units. The Greek army then sivided their forces and advanced in two directions. Part proceded east and occupied all land west of the Mesta River. The rest of the Greek army advanced up the Struma River valley, defeating the Bulgarian army in the battles of Doiran and Mt. Beles before themselves being defeated at the Kresna straights. The Greeks offered a ceasefire and the Bulgarians accepted due to the danger posed by the Romanian army in the north.

Seeing the military position of the Bulgarian army, Romania and the Ottoman Empire decided to intervene. Romania raised an army and declared war on Bulgaria on June 27. They encountered little resistance from the Bulgarians, and by the time of the ceasefire were only 30 kilometers from Sofia.

Now, the Division of Macedonia. Pirin Macedonia(east) went to Bulgaria, Aegean Macedonia, heart of Macedonia and where Alexander The Great was went to Greece, and Vardar Macedonia went to Serbia creating Yugoslavia, there was othing left of the country that called itself Macedonia, let me show you a picture of Undivded Macedonia:
Image In 1991, the Macedonian government gave the Macedonians to chose if they would spilt up from Yuglsabvia and become a Independant country, and they did, and now Greece thus fearing they will loose Aegean Macedonia, they bought up some Propoganda saying that '4000 of Macedonian history is Greek!'. The only saying I would like to leave you all with is now..

The only thing older than Macedonia is the Sun!

- Makedonija, Decendant of Alexander The Great.

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Mr Holmes
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Post by Mr Holmes » 23 Apr 2007 11:52

I do hope you know that this is an apolitical forum...

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Bill Woerlee
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Post by Bill Woerlee » 24 Apr 2007 15:22


When you asked rhetorically: "Are We Forgetting Something?" I quickly checked to see if my fly was done up. Yeah, it was. I had a shower, clean undies, brushed my teeth ... what was I forgetting? Then I saw your punchline: "The only thing older than Macedonia is the Sun! " Obviously written in pure Eurocentric idiom that cannot see beyond the four walls of the decaying doss house sited next to a cesspool because there would be no other way such nauseating effluvia could be written. Let me see ... the Chinese already had established their empire before your ancestors had worked out that putting grey minyan ware on a potters wheel turns out better pottery. Their calligraphy has survived longer and is still in use whereas Linear B is only an arcane relic buried in the palace of Pylos. But there is an older, more continuous civilisation and linguistic group, a civilisation that has lasted in excess of 60,000 years with direct lineage to the present world ... I speak of the folks who lived around Lake Mungo when the concept of Cro Magnon hadn't even emerged let alone Macedonians. So when you want to insult people with fictional nationalistic claims, think long and hard ... no, no, better still, take a laxative and clear your mind. Then you will realise that we have not forgotten a thing, especially your idiotic ravings.



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Post by dibo » 24 Apr 2007 15:45

Dear all,

There is one thing I have learned in all these years and that is:

Never, I repeat never, argue on history subjects with Macedonians. It's like the old saying: "How to prove to a man, who has seen pink elefants, that they don't exist?"

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 26 Apr 2007 05:41

Let's keep this topic on the Ottomans and lighten up on the agitprop.

Jochen Kruesmann
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Joined: 22 Apr 2007 14:25
Location: Goch-Germany

Post by Jochen Kruesmann » 28 Apr 2007 17:18

Hello Makedonija,

just one question: How old is the sun ?????? From those comments one can realise that it is very hard to get peace over there. The world ( and especially your country, dear Makedonija) I think has other problems like those ones, don`t you ?


Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 08 May 2007 19:56

Mustafa Kemal was also a Macedonian Turk.
I am also a Macedonian Turk. My ancestors, Hadji Osman Hodja Grandfather of my father are all buried in Sofular in their for long lost graves. For that reason Macedonia means everything to me.

My late father imigrated from the village of Sofular/Kapnohori of the city of Kozana/Kozani of the Sanjack of Serfice of the province Capital city of Manastir/Pitoli. Today Sofular, Kozana and Serfice are in Greece.Manastir is in Republic of Macedonia.
There were 86 pure Turkish villages around Kozana. All Turks imigrated in 1924 to Turkey. My grandmother who spoke beautiful Macedonian Turkish dialect sung always the following song . After her dead I never heard it again. Sometimes I sing by my self.
"Rumeli'nin daglari var
Ne guzeldir simdi aglar
Aglama sen garip vatan
Biz geliriz yine inan."

Rumelia have mountains
They are beautiful but crying
Don't cry you beloved fatherland
Believe us we will came again.

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Chris Dale
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Post by Chris Dale » 09 May 2007 00:39

Mr Holmes wrote:I do hope you know that this is an apolitical forum...
You are absolutely right Mr Holmes, this is an Apolitical Forum for discussing history. Politics and Nationalism have no place here. I am locking this topic from further discussion.


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