Turkish Flak

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
adolpheit
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Turkish Flak

Post by adolpheit » 16 Sep 2007 11:23

I need some informations about anti aircraft guns used by Turkish Army during WW1. I know that two (four?) 75mm guns were bought in Germany after Balkan War and were lost after the fall of Edirne (1913). But I don't know anything about what happened later.
Can anybody help me?
Thanks

Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 16 Sep 2007 11:39

Turkish AA gun at Tel el Sheria during WW1 in 1917
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Carlos Marighela
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Post by Carlos Marighela » 17 Sep 2007 03:19

Those look a bit like French 75mm mounted on a pedestal. I've seen a photo of Turkish forces usuing the French 75mm AA on a high angle carriage mount. Presumably trophies handed over by the Germans.

Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 17 Sep 2007 09:14

Maj. Gen. Hüseyin Hüsnü Emir Erkilet who was CoS of Yildirim Group of Armies during WW1 gives following numbers in his book "Yıldırım" the Lightning.

p.329:
117th AAFlak team was given temporarely to the order of 16th Div. on May 1917 at Sinai front.
113th AAFlak Team was given temporalely to the order of 54th Div.
(No number of guns mentioned)

p.349:
German 15th AAFlak Battary was at Racu to defend the bridge on 01.10.1917

p.351:
One 7,7 cm AAFlakfrom 8th Army was at repair in Damascus on 01.10.1917
p. 356:
He doesnt mention any AAFlaks at the order of 7th Army in 18.11.1917

p.362:
Three AAFlaks were lost during 31.11.1917 - 13.12.1917

p.365:
Number of AA Flak guns still working at 8th Army at the end of February 1918
Two 7,7 flaks
There were also four 7,7 AAFlaks not ready for war still repairing.

adolpheit
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Post by adolpheit » 17 Sep 2007 16:02

Many thanks, for the picture and for the information. It is interesting to know that Germany sent to Turkey some 7.7cm AA guns, the problem is to know wether they were German guns or 7.5 cm French guns rebored.

Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 22 Sep 2007 23:20

Names of german Flak officers:
Capt.Schumann commander of Flak in 1918
2nd Lt. Strauch , 2nd Lt. Fulda , 2nd Lt. Lutz at 8th Army in Palastina
Lt. Bader at Canal Expedition and 7th Army
Lt. Henkelmann at Filistin
Lt. Griessbach at Filistin
Lt. Würker at Filistin

Lt. Brandt at South Wing in Gallipoli
Lt.Przyzskowski at Filistin 8th Army
Lt. Gläser Filistin 8th Army
Lt Hahn " " " " "" """""""""""
Lt. Fechner " """ """"
Lt. Schunk "" "" " "
Lt. Lauth "" """"
Lt. Wagner at Filistin 7th Army
Lt.Wüsthof """"""""""
Lt Jahn at Taurus mountains
lt. Uber at Haleppo
lt. Hild """"""""
lt. Zölch Damascus

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:qa ... d=11&gl=tr

Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 21 Oct 2007 08:35

Emin Çöl "Çanakkale-Sina Savaşları" (Battles at Gallipoli and Sinai) printed in 1977 p.103

Emin Çöl was a NCO during WW1. At Sinai Front he was blinded by a bomb. He spent rest of the wat at Seydibeşir Prison Camp. After the civil reforms of Turkish Republic he got the familiyname Çöl which means "desert"

"The AA flaks were positioned to protect the area between Tell Şeria Station- Ridges of Ebu Hof and Ebu Huveyre Hill. All the flaks and crew were German."

stevebecker
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Re: Turkish Flak

Post by stevebecker » 08 Oct 2015 00:58

Mate,

I was just rereading this and found most of the known AA units in British records, these maybe correct or not?

shown Jun 1917 Allied reports - (German units with the 22nd Corps)

133rd AA Sect (6x77mm AA guns) 133a AA Sect (6x77mm AA guns) 136th AA sect (6x77mm AA guns)

Airfield AA guns att 300 Jasta German unit

142nd AA Sect (6x77mm AA guns) mixed with known airfields in Palestine

shown July 1917 Allied reports - (German unit with 20th Corps)

28th AA sect (6x77mm AA guns) reported arrived Palestine front July 1917

*number of guns in these Sections is British best guess, and there may have been less then numbers show?

While other Allied reports for 1918, give these German units?

15th AA Bty (4x 77mm AA guns) 120th AA Sect (2x 77mm AA guns)

133rd AA Bty (2x 75mm AA guns) 177th AA Bty (2x 77mm AA guns)

136th AA Bty (2x 75mm AA guns) 3rd AA Bty (2x 77mm AA guns)

These numbers appear more like the real numbers in these AA sections

I didn't find the units (117th AA and 113th AA possibly 177 and 133?) mentioned by Tosun in Maj. Gen. Hüseyin Hüsnü Emir Erkilet.

Hope that helps I could find no Turkish AA units?

S.B

stevebecker
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Re: Turkish Flak

Post by stevebecker » 09 Oct 2015 01:00

Mates,

Sorry but it would be interesting to put the German officers shown by Tosun to the known German AA Batteries.

I did find a reference to this AA battery in April 1917 at 2nd Gaza?

(Two 37mm Maschinen Flugabwehr Kanonen auf Sockel) from the Bavarian Flakzug 136, under Lieutenant de Reserve Bader.

Names of german Flak officers:
Capt.Schumann commander of Flak in 1918
2nd Lt. Strauch , 2nd Lt. Fulda , 2nd Lt. Lutz at 8th Army in Palastina

must relate to the German officers and staff in the German Asia Corps which was part of the 8th Army with the 22nd Corps in late 1918

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: Turkish Flak

Post by Tosun Saral » 09 Oct 2015 19:33

I am still having my sommer vocation on the Med shore I will be back at home on nov.. I will interest later. cheers

stevebecker
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Re: Turkish Flak

Post by stevebecker » 15 Nov 2015 00:13

Mates,

Thanks to a list given by Skarp we have some known AA commanders

AA Batterys

133rd AA Sect - Lt Strauch
142nd AA Sect - Lt Behrend
28th AA sect - Lt Tzjdujchowski possibly Przyzskowski
177th AA sect - Lt Hentelmann possibly Henkelmann
136th AA sect - Lt Bader

The problem is how do these and the list given by Tosun fit in?

Names of german Flak officers:
Capt.Schumann commander of Flak in 1918
2nd Lt. Strauch , 2nd Lt. Fulda , 2nd Lt. Lutz at 8th Army in Palastina
Lt. Bader at Canal Expedition and 7th Army
Lt. Henkelmann at Filistin
Lt. Griessbach at Filistin
Lt. Würker at Filistin

Lt. Brandt at South Wing in Gallipoli
Lt.Przyzskowski at Filistin 8th Army
Lt. Gläser Filistin 8th Army
Lt Hahn " " " " "" """""""""""
Lt. Fechner " """ """"
Lt. Schunk "" "" " "
Lt. Lauth "" """"
Lt. Wagner at Filistin 7th Army
Lt.Wüsthof """"""""""
Lt Jahn at Taurus mountains
lt. Uber at Haleppo
lt. Hild """"""""
lt. Zölch Damascus

Some are the same but others ?

Cheers

S.B

stevebecker
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Re: Turkish Flak

Post by stevebecker » 15 Nov 2015 03:07

Mates,

I did notice that these AA Sections were with these Infantry units;

15th AA Bty (4x or 2x 77mm AA guns) with 701st FAR Pasha II Group, and

120th AA sect (2x77mm AA guns) with 146th Infantry Regt

But no commanders names given?

S.B

stevebecker
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Re: Turkish Flak

Post by stevebecker » 25 Nov 2015 00:40

Mates,

On Sunday, 15th November 2015, the German embassy to Israel held their Volkstrauertag at Nazareth. The Ambassador of the Federal Republic gave the main address, and the ceremony was overall, in the capable hand of priests from the local German Protestant and Catholic churches. It was accompanied by the fine music of a wind quintete, provided by the German army. Wreaths were laid by the representatives of the many nations which were involved in the Great War in Palestine, including the representatives from the Bavarian State legislateure, whose air squadron played a notable part in the battles here. Also, our GWF Pal 'Eran', in his capasity as Chairman of the 'Society for the Heritage of the First World War in Israel', laid a wreath on behalf of the local membership which was well represented at the ceremony. The 261 Germans who are remembered here in Nazareth include at least one Jew, and the Israeli Army provided a Rabbi and a Chantor to complete this ecumenical service. The Federal German Embassy must be congratulated on their hospitable arrangements for this ceremony, which included an excellent buffet lunch after the formalities.

One man I saw on the lists of dead;

Gefr Harald Roepke Ballon Abw Kan Zug 136
Killed or died 3 Oct 1918

or known as the Bavarian AA flak Section 136

I did wonder if Ballon is Balloon, and what was a balloon sect with this AA flak unit?

But a mate sent this reply;

The unit of Roepke was the Flakzug 136. Earlier those Flak units were called Bak (Ballon-Abwehr-Kanonen), later it changed into Flak

Cheers

S.B

stevebecker
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Re: Turkish Flak

Post by stevebecker » 15 Dec 2015 02:34

Mates,

Found an interesting comment on the Turkish webb site,

Turkeyswar.com / © Altay Atlı / this page is last updated on February 8, 2015

Relating to the air defences in 1916;

"Anti-aircraft batteries will be positioned in Kağıthane, Zeytinburnu, Yeşilköy, Okmeydanı, Osmaniye, Sarayburnu, İstinye, Tophane, Başıbüyük and Baruthane"

So it appears the Turks did form their own AA Batteries, but only for air defence at home not with the armies?

No details on what types of guns these batteries had.

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: Turkish Flak

Post by Tosun Saral » 17 Dec 2015 09:28

(k.u.k. Haubitz-Division Luftfahrtruppen Ballonabteilung Nr 22) served at Palestine

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