Friedrich Freiherr Kress von Kressenstein

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
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Peter H
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#61

Post by Peter H » 04 Feb 2008, 15:03

Jochen Kruesmann wrote:
Peter H wrote:Let's keep to the period 1908-1923 and forego opinions on matters outside this area of research.

I find it disheartening that topics here constantly warp off topic,fuelled by ultra nationalistic views that are best kept private.

Thankyou
Peter
Dear Peter,

I fully agree with your statement, but it comes very late ! We (and me as a German) realise that nationalists form all sides (like Mr. Saral from Turkey and others from the Balkans countries) tried to use that forum espcially during the last months for their own propaganda !
I think those members from Australia , Canada and other non European countries can`t imagine some of the facts stated. It feels to me that non-european members are only looking that they get informations about the war topics, but can`t imagine what is behind in a more cultural or political way. I don`t blame them for that, but I think one has to look behind some of the contributors of the forum and their ideas. For me as a well-known maritime researchers it is always nice to get some more new informations, but not to every price at all. So I would state that if you (not personal) had care about the nationlism in some comments before it should not have happened what is going on since several months here!

I beg your pardon for those sentences, but I am soeaking for some more of "real researches" who left behind any national views (from all sides) a long time ago. Remember it is history and we have to realised the facts and not the wishes of some of the contributors.

Jochen Kruesmann
If you think this section needs a full time moderator then please feel free to suggest this to the owner of this forum.The original idea was that this being a small topic area it would not need constant monitoring nor a moderator 24/7.The constant flare up of arguments, prompted by views not relevant to the discussions on military history,needs to stop.

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Bill Woerlee
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#62

Post by Bill Woerlee » 07 Feb 2008, 01:35

Belita

G'day and thanks

The weather in Narooma is far more pleasant than in Sydney at the moment and the facilities here are second to none. So I can take a minute out of my very laid back schedule.

No problems with the research notes you have Belita. I am open to all sorts of information.

Kress was a very complex person so it is not possible ot pigeon hole him in the class of Prussian style officer - him being a Bavarian precluded this.

[NB - the Bavarians always copped a hiding from the Prussians as being lazy and stupid. They were south of the border so to say. There was an old Prussian joke that went like this: Q: What is that skeleton doing in the wood shed? A: That is the Bavarian who won our last game of Hide and Seek. The feelings towards Bavarians was in no small part fuelled by the insanity of King Ludwig, the builder of the castle from whence Walt Disney produced his Disneyland Castle in Fantasy Land.]

So Kress had a huge amount of cultural baggage to deal with when being examined by subsequent history. He was in a no win situation. By the Germans, he was a Bavarian - say no more, say no more - and by the rest of the world he was the worst manifestation of the German Junkies. So it didn't matter what he did, he was either classed as stupid or perfidious.

Take for instance the first attack on the Canal.

Like a loyal soldier, he performed the task he was assigned and performed it exceptionally well. However, when the purpose of the task was no longer possible, he did the next best thing and retired with basically his whole force in tact. It was not a rout nor a pell mell retreat. It was undertaken with the care and consideration that brought this large force to the canal in the first place. If you examine the route that was taken, the staff work and planning is simply extraordinary and stunning to even achieve what was achieved. It was daring and displayed what well led troops could achieve even if their task was of itself unachieveable.

I have great admiration for the competence and ability of Kress.

Unfortunately for the mass Australian audience Simon Wincer portrayed Kress as an arrogant Prussian who believed implicitly in his own point of view despite the evidence to the contrary. You can relive this silly and disingenuous portrayal in "The Lighthorseman".

As to Kress visiting NYNY, 1919 was out. In the first part, to have undertaken any travel would have involved his arrest and incarceration by the victorious allies. Then he had all the problems to deal with in Bavaria - they were many in terms of civil unrest. This all culminated with the Beer Hall Putsche. After 1925 he would have been free to travel. After 1928 when he retired, no problems with travel.

Cheers

Bill


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#63

Post by belita » 08 Feb 2008, 09:28

Hi Bill.
Where is Narooma? Thanks for the joke :) and info. It is relevant (the info!) :)
A bit of clean up: I am not Nationalistic. I am a Christian Synarchist in fact. So I am out of that. I am very greatful to Portugal (for 29 years of culture and good life) and I am very greatful to Australia (for 19 years of different experiences and good money). However, I would not fight for any of them. My favorite countries are actually Austria and Brazil (confused?) :) But I also like Spain and Morocco (which is not normal for a Portuguese). But I find all this very petty and shallow in this day and age... (Sorry...urgent work, I'll be back...).

belita
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#64

Post by belita » 08 Feb 2008, 10:38

I'm back for a while...
You said: "I have great admiration for the competence and ability of Kress".
So have I. So far as what I have been reading about his military work and dedication, although I have not yet read much because I work two jobs and have other activities that are time consuming.
I don't want to talk very much about what led to this investigation,
since it is part of my inner development and that I only discuss with the Order of which I am a member.
Proceeding:
You said: "If you examine the route that was taken..."
Yes, I have never been to Israel, but I have been taking a look at the maps and reading the approach to cross the desert (I love the Australian Desert...). Do you know what I think? I read it somewhere and I agree, most of the way they went underground...Not as far down as the Vril-Ya people :) (I think, but I may as well be wrong)... Very clever! Pied Piper of Hamelin style... :)
As for the film "The Lighthorseman" I have seen it advertised but I don't intend to watch it as I only watch quality films.
Highly recommended, one of latest I watched: "Into Great Silence" http://www.zeitgeistfilms.com/film.php? ... eatsilence
You said: "As to Kress visiting NYNY, 1919 was out..."
Thanks for that. You are right. Suddenly I forgot he was on the other side. :) (formally)
It could have been later, as I don't believe the source I used to make that assumption is very trustworthy, since lately I have seen other misleading routes pertaining other stuff, coming from that same source...
But I am almost sure he was in NY, even just for one day.
And more I won't say, as I'm off for a glass of Shiraz at the Bondi Hotel...
Have a nice weekend everybody.
Cheers! IR
PS 1 - Work hard and study hard. As the great Sri Prabhupada would say: "Don't be a dog".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi_ABvR1 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlP162B8 ... re=related
PS 2 - Relaxation and entertainment for the weekend:
Braking ice in New Schwabenland with Admiral Byrd - Expedition High Jump (3 lots)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSd0Sm0S ... re=related

belita
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#65

Post by belita » 08 Feb 2008, 14:03

Guess what: there is a company in Chicago that sells the video of "Fragments Jerusalem", unfortunately out of stock.
http://www.facets.org/asticat?function= ... num=/42726
The picture of KvK is in Part 4.

belita
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#66

Post by belita » 09 Feb 2008, 05:20

First attempts to know the meaning of the German name Kress von Kressenstein:

Info collection / Brainstorming:

- Marlis, my Swiss-German colleague at work, says that it is an old name and can have several meanings, namely: cress (as in water-cress), kreuz or cross, crest, cress or desert rose… Stein means “rock”.

- The Kross on the Rock (Martini on the rocks) :)

- There is a French spelling in the Coat-of-Arms: Wappen Kress, à Kressenstain (check French Merovigians later); http://karaart.com/prints/ex-libris/1b-b.html and

- KvK seemed to know the Pelestine area very well; perhaps he had been there before…

- “In 1914-1917, Baku produced 7 million tons of oil each year, totaling 28,683,000 tons of oil, which constituted 15% of world production at the time. Germany did not trust Turkey in oil matters and transferred General Friedrich Freiherr Kress von Kressenstein from the Middle Eastern front with his troops to Georgia in order to enter Baku, through Ukraine, the Black Sea and Georgia.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Baku

- It is amazing how an old friend of mine looks like Lenin…

- “According to mediaeval Armenian, Georgian, Caucasusian Albanian, Arabic and Persian sources, she came to the conclusion that the name Baku is derived from the Persian Bagavan, which translates to "City of God".” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Baku

- PROUD HERITAGE - The Story of the Highland Light Infantry
by LT.-COL. L. B. OATTS, D.S.O. Late H.L.I.
VOLUME THREE - The Regular, Militia, Volunteer, T.A.,
and Service Battalions H.L.I. 1882—1918

- The Coat of Arms show one sword (MacLellan’s Spear!?) in horizontal position and once again at about 60 degrees; no, 45 degrees with the horizontal, but about 60/30 degrees if prolonged to meet the horizontal sword. I can’t read the Latin motto above (too blurry). It also interesting to know that a sword is actually a cross upside down…

- Water Cress = plant of the family of the Crucifers (not Lucifers? ) (doh!) / Crux / Crucifers (the same family as cabbages!) / Other Crucifers: Water Cress, Cress, Cabagge, Desert Rose or Rose of Jericho…

- Rose of Jericho (since Jericho is not far from Jaffa Road) - :)
Kategorie: Kreuzblütengewächse

- The Rose of Jericho, RESURRECTION PLANT, or Anastatica hierochuntica is a member of the family Brassicaceae (formerly Cruciferae) and the only member of the genus Anastatica.
Because of the potential age of the plant, it has also taken the name "dinosaur plant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW9pfSrDV08

The Influence of Seed-Dispersal Mechanisms on the Dispersion of Anastatica Hierochuntica (Cruciferae) in the Negev Desert, Israel
Jacob Friedman, Zipporah Stein
The Journal of Ecology, Vol. 68, No. 1 (Mar., 1980), pp. 43-50
doi:10.2307/2259242
This article consists of 8 page(s).
View Article Abstract

- L’important c’est la Rose, l’important c’est la Rose, crois-moi…(GILBERT BÉCAUD Lyrics)

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Peter H
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#67

Post by Peter H » 09 Feb 2008, 05:40

From The Library of Congress

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/phpdata/pageturne ... ollID=coll


"Von Kress and Baron Lager, Chief Austrian Commander, 1916"

Image

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Bill Woerlee
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#68

Post by Bill Woerlee » 11 Feb 2008, 07:18

Peter

Thanks for finding the pic mate - much appreciated.

Cheers

Bill

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#69

Post by Bill Woerlee » 11 Feb 2008, 07:25

belita

G'day once again.

I am having a great deal of trouble understanding the term "Christian Synarchist" - perhaps you could give me a hint as to what the term actually means. I presume it is the key to your commentary and therein it fills in the dots between translating an idea to a clutch of historica. I am very interested in what lies between these dots.

Narooma is a coastal town south of Sydney and about 60 km north of Bega. Its chief claim to fame is its great oysters, peaceful lifestyle and quiet.

Cheers

Bill

belita
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#70

Post by belita » 12 Feb 2008, 13:27

Well... Hi :) When I was still studying architecture in Lisbon (about 1979) I came across a book that changed my life for the better. It was called Synarchy by a French author called Jean Saunier, who had a "spiritual crush" on a fellow called Saint-Yves d'Alveydre, who has been my "main crush" along with Paul Foster Case and other men including (now) high rank military men such as Byrd and Kress :) :) :)... Amazing enough they are all dead!!! :) (Except that we don't die, so says the snake and I happen to like snakes)...
Nevertheless, trust me: Dead men are easier to deal with... ;)

In a nut shell, Monsieur Le Marquis de Saint-Yves D'Alveydre together with his beautiful Russian wife meditated and developed (based on previous theories started by others) a device called Archeometre that I long to study and develop in depth when I semi-retire in Strahan, Tasmania (which hopefully will be in less than 5 years). :)
It is basically a device that can be used to interface all sciences and arts including architectural proportions, music, sacred alphabets (ie.: Arabic, Sanscrit, Persian, Assyrian, Hebrew (Aramaic)). I got the copies through the NSW State Library 19 years ago and while in Paris I got an old original from a 2nd hand dealer (almost new and cheap)... I believe a translation in English is available these days. I started translating it a few years ago, but it's 9:40 and I just finished work... Meaning, I have decided to make a lot of money now that the work is available and will save to be able to study later on... I have to careful, because the only thing that exists is the PRESENT moment... Personally, I believe in Saint-Yves's theory and admire him for his persistence, resilience and especially his faith in Jesus Christ. He also bases his theory in the interrelationship of sacred geometric figures (namely the start of David) but applied to the Christian faith. Politically, his system is trinitarian like the Holy Trinity, incorporating: 1)Fraternite, 2) Egalite, 3) Liberte. 1-Spiritual Life or Authority or UNIVERSAL WILL (composed of Supreme Pontificat; a Fraternal Lodge; and the 3 Functions of Higher Sacerdoce, Teaching and Public Rituals); 2- Moral Life or INTERFACE between UNIVERSAL WILL and INDIVIDUAL WILL (Elected Colleges: Legislators -creators- and Ministers -executers-; 3 Councils under Legislators incorporating Authority(instruction,laws), Power(justice, defense, police), Economy(finance,labor); 3 Councils under Ministers incorporating Le Primat(intellectual life), Justice(justice, defense, foreign affairs), Economy(finance,public works, trade); and Economic Life or INDIVIDUAL WILL (Democratic organization via universal suffrage; Popular Freedom Board; and the 3 Functions of High Teaching, Juridical Power (Magistrates) and Economic Power (production/distribution/finances).
The French and Spanish versions are online. I'll see if I get hold of any in English. Meanwhile, in French, you can have a better overview here: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1557/dedic.html
and in English you can read the Preface :) translated by me in 1991 I guess here:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1557/Archeometre.html
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1557/arch_part_one.html
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1557/arch_part_two.html
If you read French I can send you the NSW State Library copies via mail
(it's huge as it includes the Theogony of the Patriarchs by Moses and the musical archeometre) :) (confused?) :)

Sorry about all that above Peter...
Here is a little bit more on KvK:
- Sword and Swastika: The Wehrmacht in the Third Reich - by Telford Taylor
at Amazon.com --- 1 Used & new - from $2.95 + $3.99 shipping 
“… Hindenburg family, both Klein and Kressenstein were “old-line” aristocrats. Neielschuetz was anti-Nazi and of the same general stamp”.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=GC8 ... ein&pgis=1
- How Great Generals Win by Bevin Alexander - 38 Used & new from $6.00 
Chiastolite (Cross Stone) Onyx
The metaphysical properties of this stone: Chiastolite is used as a powerful protective stone. It is a gateway into mysteries including death & rebirth. It is useful when making transitions or for maintaining spirituality during illness or trauma. It calms fears and helps one face reality. It dispels negative thoughts and feelings. Base Chakra, Libra and numbers 3 & 4. Price: $15.95 
http://www.gemergence.com/servlet/Detail?no=63
http://www.mindat.org/min-1001.html


Latin: Iberis - German: Stein Cress - English: Sciatica Cress
http://www.accesspadr.org/cpp/de_bennev ... medica.pdf

Captain Sir Richard F. Burton - Vikram and The Vampire
[FN#187] The celebrated burning springs of Baku, near the Caspian,
are so called. There are many other "fire mouths."
http://www.fullbooks.com/Vikram-and-the-Vampire1.html





Réf : 5758 En vente chez : Librairie Miraglia - Lyon - 33+ 0 6 07 27 53 32
(KARL FRIEDERICH VON FRANK ZU DOFERING) KRESSEN

DIE KRESSEN, eine familiengeschichte von K. F. V. F. D., schloss senftenegg, niederosterreich, unter mitarbeit von Georg Freiherrn Kress Von Kressenstein, MJR. A. D. , Bad Salzungen, Thuringen, und bezuglich der Amerikanischen Biographien Von Charles Rhoads Roberts, allentown, Pennsyl. Schloss senftenegg, Post Ferschnitz, Niederosterreich, 1936. 2 Kress forts et grands volumes in-folio. Reliures de l'éditeur en percaline grise. - Prix : 2000.00 €

Superbe - et Kress imposante - ouvrage de généalogie, (environ 25 kilogrammes pour les deux volumes) concernant une des familles les plus illustres de Prusse et de Saxe. Environs 2500 reproductions diverses, hors et dans le texte: châteaux, objets mobiliers, gravures anciennes, meubles ayant appartenu a la famille, cartes, et, repliés in fine, des grands arbres genealgiques (environ 1metre x 2 mètres) Tiré à 300 exemplaires seulement. Celui ci, ayant appartenu à Emile Salomon, Président du Conseil des Héraldistes de France.


War Experiences in Rural Germany (1914-1923) – Benjamin Ziemann
War Weariness - Page 73

belita
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#71

Post by belita » 12 Feb 2008, 13:35

This aspect is important to me (although I already knew KvK was a nice man, since the first time I saw his photo 9 years ago) since I have lived in the same Unit next door to the Jewish Club for almost 20 years and I have a lot of Jewish friends, to whom I'm also grateful for putting up with me... :)

The Sword and Swastika: The Wehrmacht in the Third Reich - by Telford Taylor
at Amazon.com --- 1 Used & new - from $2.95 + $3.99 shipping 
“… Hindenburg family, both Klein and Kressenstein were “old-line” aristocrats. Neielschuetz was anti-Nazi and of the same general stamp”.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=GC8 ... ein&pgis=1

belita
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#72

Post by belita » 12 Feb 2008, 13:41

I will willingly pay up AUD$1,000 for the DVD of Fragments Jerusalem if any of you gets it anywhere and sends it to me.
http://www.facets.org/asticat?function= ... num=/42726

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Bill Woerlee
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#73

Post by Bill Woerlee » 12 Feb 2008, 22:42

belita

G'day and thanks for that. Also thanks to Peter for his indulgence.

I do have a fragment from Jerusalem. The fellow who sold it to me claimed it was one of the very stones caste in the "Let he who is without sin" incident. He showed me a certificate of authenticity which clearly agreed with these facts and was actually signed by the priests at the time and dated 33 AD You don't get more accurate then that. He seemed a honest enough character. I gave him a Ben Franklin, which was really a bit too much for the rock, so he kindly said he had to get some change for me and if I could wait for him at the corner, he would have it back to me in a jiffy. I never saw him again. He must have missed me in the crowd although I was the only one at that corner come 2am the following morning some ten hours later. Anyway, if you like I can get you a fragment of this fragment, tape it on a DVD and send it to you. Does that qualify for the grand???? :lol:

Just playing with you there.

That Kress is dead is without a doubt accurate and thus an easy man for you to manage. :wink:

I am not sure where this all Kress business fits into this story. Perhaps you could give me an idea as to how this connects with Christian Synarchy. My interest is quite piqued.

Cheers

Bill

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#74

Post by belita » 13 Feb 2008, 15:31

Sun Tsu (The Art of War) - not Lao Tse

Dear Bill and All,

I'm very busy, so I'll have to leave this Topic.
However, I would appreciate if any of you ever gets hold of the DVD, please let me know. My offer stands.

The Christian Synarchy is the World Order that occurred in the Golden Era, when the continents on planet Earth were very different (do a search on: Pangea and the times of the Kali Yuga) that was known as the Cycle of Ram. Like a map, it is difficult to explain in words but very easy to explain geometrically, due to its easy interfaces. The records in the Vedas and other books, show that that social system worked, so perhaps it could be applicable now (with adaptations of course). We have all been longing for happiness and social justice for quite a while and nothing has worked so far...So, I guess it's worth to keep on trying using good models.

As stated, 9 or 10 years ago when watching the film I really had the feeling that both Kress von Kressenstein and the man that was with him in the car, where making a contribution to the re-establishment of that World Order in an almost "archetypal" way. As Ron Havilio (the film Director) shows a panoramic of the photo and then a close-up, in Part 4, I had the feeling that, somehow, both those men were working as a pair like others did before them. Some are better known than others. We have Khrishna (Christ) and Ar-Juna (John) and other people working in pairs as more advanced souls, to help the bulk of humanity.

As Ron did not reply to my email request of the photo or DVD, this was the reason why I joined this topic, expecting that it would be easier to get the photo here, than anywhere else... I even thought that perhaps someone was in this topic because of a special admiration for any heroic or strategic moves put in place by the General. As I said, unlike Hitler, I'm not a fascist and I don't think the German primordial race has any rights over the other races, especially when the objective is to enslave them.
However, like Hitler, I do believe that the novel of Vril, The Power of the Coming Race, by Sir Edward Bulwer-Lytton, http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/vril/ is true, not fiction, and I also have an interest in Tibet (that I will be visiting soon!), gained mostly through Alec MacLellan's 3 books (he only wrote 3 books).

Therefore, as I have a lot of work to do, I will abandon the topic now.
In the future, if you get hold of the photo or DVD please contact me on [email protected]

Cheers and good luck to all of us.
IR

PS: :) Entertainment from NASA. :) http://www.texasjim.com/NASApix/NASA%20pix.htm

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Bill Woerlee
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Re: Friedrich Freiherr Kress von Kressenstein

#75

Post by Bill Woerlee » 27 Feb 2008, 02:58

Mates

Just found this pic of Kress in the publication:

Tunca Örses and Necmettin Özcelik "DÜNYA SAVASI'NDA - TÜRK AKSERI KIYAFETLERI (1914-1918)", p. 196.
Turkish_Uniforms_p196_Kress_1qba2.jpg
Turkish_Uniforms_p196_Kress_1qba2.jpg (31.53 KiB) Viewed 2243 times
He was on his way to inspect a group of what appears to be German Storm Troopers.
Turkish_Uniforms_p197_Storm-troopers_1qaa1.jpg
Turkish_Uniforms_p197_Storm-troopers_1qaa1.jpg (29.41 KiB) Viewed 2242 times
Since these fellows actually are displaying shoulder patches, I am wondering if anyone is able to identify the formation.

Cheers

Bill

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