SMS Breslau 1918

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
reedwh52
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Re: SMS Breslau 1918

#16

Post by reedwh52 » 08 Sep 2019, 00:47

In re-reading the thread, I noted some corrections that need to be made to an earlier message (#10 in the thread) quoted below:


quote:
There was no question of this ! Rear Admiral Sir Thomas Troubridge, second in command of the British Mediterranean Fleet,in charge of the pursuit and the destruction of the Mittelmeerdivision was courtmartialled and dismissed after the escape of the German ships...unquote.

The correct information is that Rear Admiral Ernest Troubridge was court-martialed and acquitted of all charges. While he recived no further seagoing commands, he was retained on active duty heading the British Mission to Serbia. He was promoted to Vice-Admiral in 1916 and to Admiral before retiring in 1921.

The career of the correct Troubridge(Ernest) was adversely impacted, but he was not dismissed.

stevebecker
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Re: SMS Breslau 1918

#17

Post by stevebecker » 18 Oct 2020, 06:32

Mates,

I notice that Klaus mentions;

"A very moving description of the last minutes of the crew of the sinking cruiser was reported by sergeant de Grignis, who wrote this in a letter to his former commandant Captain von Knorr: "

All I can find that his name was

De Crignis (De Grignis) Adolf Bootsmaat Marine PO SMS Breslau (Midilli) - possibly II. Matrosen-Div 1. Abtl. 1915-18 (born at Neuburg Schwaben ) shown in Gefschaft (in prison) possibly PoW 20-1-18 when SMS Breslau sunk off Imbros reported survived sinking

I notice the De Grignis is mention else where and I can find no member of the crew call De Grignis?

He was a Petty officer (Bootsmaat) on the Breslau

Cheers

S.B


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Tanzania
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Re: SMS Breslau 1918

#18

Post by Tanzania » 14 Aug 2023, 08:54

Tosun Saral wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 07:25
Midilli download/file.php?id=446310&mode=view

I am currently looking for information on the main armament of the "SMS Breslau / Midilli".
I also came across this post in the AHF. Since the cruiser in the first picture only has three funnels,
I assume that it is the light cruiser "Mecidiye" or "Hamidiye" and not the "SMS Breslau / Midilli".

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Tanzania
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Re: SMS Breslau 1918

#19

Post by Tanzania » 15 Aug 2023, 18:29

Questions about the armament of the "SMS Breslau / Midilli" in 1916

Actually, I just wanted to find out what happened to the originally twelve 10.5 cm SK L/45 guns of the "SMS Breslau / Midilli" after the rearmament to eight 15 cm SK L/45. It is documented by reputable text sources (Gröner) that two 15 cm SK L/45 guns were installed on "SMS Breslau / Midilli" as early as 1916, replacing two of the 10.5 cm guns. The 10.5 was then available for another use. (Coastal fortifications at Galipoli or at the Euphrates River Detachment?) Where and how the distribution of these guns (2x15 cm and 10x10.5 cm) now looked, however, causes a problem, as this is so far neither detectable by photos, plans or reports.


Even among marine professionals, this question comes up:
Kaiserlicher kleine Kreuzer S.M.S. BRESLAU später MİDİLLİ
https://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index ... ic=30545.0


1916_Two 10.5 cm SK L-40 .png
Original Source: http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/pi ... _guns.html


During the further research I came across this photo, but the detectability of the two (possibly) 10.5 cm SL L/45 is quite low.
The 15 cm rear gun, however, is more clearly visible.
1917_Two 10.5 cm & One 15 cm.png
Original Source: http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_20 ... 607531.jpg
SMS Goeben 1916 Photos https://gmic.co.uk/topic/18483-sms-goeben-1916-photos/


It is only a hypothesis, but the, for me only logical constellation, which I have tried to compare roughly and schematically
here for 1915, 1916 and 1917.
SMS Breslau - Midilli in 1915 and 1917.png

As I said, this post is actually just a "slip", because I am more interested in what happened to the twelve 10.5 cm SK L/45 guns of the "SMS Breslau / Midilli".

Maybe one of the readers knows more?
Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

stevebecker
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Re: SMS Breslau 1918

#20

Post by stevebecker » 16 Aug 2023, 03:10

Holger,
I have not heard of any up date on these ships, so far in any works.
But since both warships were damaged in either action or to mines, a number of times during the war, that there would have been updates.
The details above are most informative in regard to the increase in firepower.
To tell the truth after checking many photos, I never picked that update of the weapons systems

stevebecker
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Re: SMS Breslau 1918

#21

Post by stevebecker » 19 Aug 2023, 00:23

Holger,
I put this question on another site and received these answers

"QUOTE - July 18, 1915: While departing the Bosporus Strait to escort the Ottoman steamer Keşan, she hit an enemy mine that exploded under boiler room no. 4. Eight members of the crew were killed. Although flooded with over 600 tons of seawater, she managed to reach İstinye at the Bosporus. The Midilli remained off duty until February 1916. Repairs were executed slowly due to the shortage of materials and qualified personnel. During repairs she was modernized and re-equipped. Instead of two aft 105 mm SK L/40, she received two 150 mm SK L/45 naval guns. That was the first stage of modernization. During the second and final stage, which took place from July 1916 to June 1917, the remaining 105 mm SK L/40 guns were replaced by 150 mm SK L/45 guns. The total gun count reached eight pieces: one at the bow, one at the aft, and three on each side of the vessel.

[from The Ship That Changed History: The German Imperial Light Cruiser S.M.S. Breslau by Dimitri Galon, p.25> in Quest, Vol.20, No.1]"

"From the Mitchell Report [REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE ATTACKS DELIVERED ON AND THE ENEMY DEFENCES OF THE DARDANELLES STRAITS. 1919] p. 385

It was stated that during 1915 and the early part of 1916, "Breslau” remained eleven months in the floating dock at Stenia undergoing repairs to injuries inflicted by mines in the Black Sea ; during this time, however, her armament was changed from twelve 10.5 cm. Cal. 45 guns, to ten 15 cm. Cal. 45 guns."

"No. 54 (Kum Kale) Battery.—No efforts made to restore the fort destroyed by Naval action in February, 1915, but after the evacuation, three 8.8 cm. Q.F. Krupp shielded guns (1909) on c.p. mountings and two 4.7 cm. Hotchkiss Q.F, guns were mounted for use against small craft and submarines. They came from the “Breslau.” One of the 8.8 cm. guns is on top of Kum Kale Fort with an all-round arc fire; the other two are about 100yds. south-east of the fort and overlook the pier. Left limit, Cape Helles, owing to being masked by old fort. Guns spaced 35 yds. apart in shallow circular pits, connected by trench. Field construction observation post in Kum Kale Fort with telemeter. Fixed ammunition includes star shell with fuse Dopp 2S/26. The two 4.7 cm. guns are mounted in bastions of old fort"

"Karte 12 from Volume 2 of Lorey does seem to confirm the guns present in 1916, as it shows 3 8.8cm SKL/45 guns at Kum Kale (Usedom Battery), but as you note wrong calibre for Breslau. The only 10.5cm SKL/45 (the calibre and type on Breslau) shown on the map are two at Harabkale Battery above Sed ul Bahr, I'm guessing from Breslau and must have been installed after the evacuation.

I did just notice that Lorey Volume 1 (p.297-8) does state that two of the 10.5cm guns removed from Breslau on rearmament in 1917 were installed at Midia at the western entrance to the Bosporus. It is also stated on p.168 that the 10.5cm gun removed in July 1915 was specifically to replace one that had been destroyed in the Asiatic coast batteries."

So did they now get placed in the old destroyed forts at Kum Kale and Seddi el Bahr on both sides of the Dardenelles.
S.B

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Re: SMS Breslau 1918

#22

Post by Tanzania » 05 Sep 2023, 19:02

stevebecker wrote:
19 Aug 2023, 00:23
. . . . . . I did just notice that Lorey Volume 1 (p.297-8) does state that two of the 10.5cm guns removed from Breslau on rearmament in 1917 were installed at Midia at the western entrance to the Bosporus. It is also stated on p.168 that the 10.5cm gun removed in July 1915 was specifically to replace one that had been destroyed in the Asiatic coast batteries."

So did they now get placed in the old destroyed forts at Kum Kale and Seddi el Bahr on both sides of the Dardenelles.
S.B

Hello Steve,

Thank you for your information and elaborations. I will definitely come back to it and let you know.

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: SMS Breslau 1918

#23

Post by Tanzania » 15 Sep 2023, 06:01

On this topic, some details have emerged in the GWF.
An exchange of information proves always as useful.

Armament of the "SMS Breslau / Midilli"
https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/306 ... u-midilli/

Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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