Captain Marek Schwartz

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
MarkRS
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Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by MarkRS » 21 Jun 2011 12:03

Pierre van Paassen described the following event in his book Days of Our Years, published in 1937:

"Marek Schwartz had been left in charge of a sacrifice unit of artillery when Jemal Pasha was forced to abandon the Holy City to General Allenby, with instructions to "blow Jerusalem to hell" the moment the British should enter. On the personal orders of Jemal Pasha, Schwartz had his batteries trained on the Mosque of Omar, and ammunition laying ready for a forty-eight-hour intensive bombardment. When Jemal left for Meggido to make his last stand before Damascus, Captain Schwartz, rather than destroy Jerusalem, walked into the British lines."

Marek Schwartz was supposed to be a Captain in the Ausrian Army.

Can anyone corroborate this story?

Tosun Saral
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by Tosun Saral » 22 Jun 2011 15:39

Cemal Pasha was not commander of 4th Army when we lost Jerusalem. A German jew Falkenhayn was commander of Army Group Yildirim. Jerusalem is a dear and beloved city to us. We protected Jerusalem nearly 500 years like the pupil of our eyes. After we returned home there is still blood, tears and suffer in that holy city. It is a great anti-Turk propaganda to say "Jemal Pasha was forced to abandon the Holy City with instructions to "blow Jerusalem to hell" We defended Jerusalem and surroundings nearly a month like a Turk with weak, exausted, sick 4000 Turks. Reserve Lt. Falih Rıfkı privat secratery of Cemal Pasha wrotes in his book Zeytindağı (Oilberg, Mt Oil) (Journalist and stateman Atay) that if we had 3 strong battalions more no one could take Jerusalem from our hands. Gone with all pride. No one dares to dishonour our soldiers. We left Jerusalem in all honours not like Beni Israil. General Erkilet gives very good information in his Yildirim how we lost Jerusalem.
On the other hand Marek was Czech Jew.


A Ghazi Minaret in Yafa. A visiting bird from fatherland sits on the Crescent and says "Why are you in sorrow Hey Ghazi Crescent. I come to be your star" From collection of my Lawyer Erdem Koray Toygar
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MarkRS
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by MarkRS » 22 Jun 2011 16:32

Tosun Saral, thanks for the response.

So it is clear that van Paassen is taking liberties with the story. Contempory British reports of the capture of Jerusalem state that the Turkish troops were very strong and that it was not easy to defeat them. And when they left it was not a retreat but a strategic withdrawal to a new defensive line not far away. The British had a great respect for how the Turks fought.

I am afraid you are mistaken about General Falkenhayn, he was a Junker, not a Jew.

Do you have a link to General Erkilet's Yildirim?

What specific information do you have about Marek Schwartz? How do you know that he was a Czech Jew? Which Austrian unit was he with?

And, please, no more cracks about "beni yisroel". It is not relevant and against the forum policy.

Mark

MarkRS
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by MarkRS » 23 Jun 2011 09:10

Marek Schwartz was born in Tarnopol, East Galicia. He was an Austrian Artillery Officer in Gallipoli, but by the time he was in Jerusalem he was a Staff Officer. He served in the Austrian Army until the end of WW1 and then emigrated to Palestine. So the Van Paassen story is a fabrication or he named the wrong Artillery Officer. A biography of Schwartz can be found here:

http://www.tidhar.tourolib.org/tidhar/view/3/1244. (In Hebrew)

This contemporary, very detailed, 1919 description of the capture of Jerusalem, by a British war correspondent, does not mention the incident at all, so I am tending towards the opinion that the story is a fabrication:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10098/10098-8.txt

Tosun Saral
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by Tosun Saral » 23 Jun 2011 10:01

I am a historian. I give only historical facts. Falih Rıfkı Atay writes in his book Zeytindağı, Pozitif yayınları, İstanbul 2004, p.107
"Good by
3 Battalions more, ah only 3 battalions more
We can not reinforce our soldiers with new men who shed their blood for Jerusalem in the trenches of Nebi Samoil. That year we found 20000 Turks for Galizia but for Jerusalem none. We loss many Anatolian Turks in remute places like Medina, Mekka, in deserts and scorpite disese. One morning when I entered into my commanders room I saw him weeping. His eyes were like blood cup. He told me that we lost Jerusalem. I read from a telegram on the table informing that how Turks fought heroicly. We left Jerusalem like Turks not like Beni Israil."

That's it. Iam not againts any nation or state. I beleve in brotherhood of all mankind. I have many friends in Israil. I have many dear colleges, classmates among Turkish Jews.
On the otherhand British miscalculated Turkish forces fighting at Jerusalem. For that reason they lost 4 weeks.
cheers

PS Please remember that the population of Turkey was only 10 million while defending the area in 3 continents. In 1933 15 million. In 2011 85 million.

MarkRS
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by MarkRS » 23 Jun 2011 11:29

Unfortunately "historical facts" can be "spun". Just listen to Obama at the moment.
If you read that British reference I gave previously, you will see how reluctantly the Turkish army gave up Jerusalem. I am not sure that the British miscalculated the Turkish forces, I think that they were vary wary of them after Gallipoli, and rightly so. However, I do not think your source knew how "Beni Israil" could fight or even that some of them were fighting on the same side. He was just being anti-semitic, so you should avoid repeating what he said, however historical it might be.

Mark

Tosun Saral
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by Tosun Saral » 23 Jun 2011 22:31

He can be anti-semitic or not. The fact is that he wrote one of the best books over Sina Palestina battles, I never avoid repeating what he said. Sorry.

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Peter H
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by Peter H » 23 Jun 2011 22:31

Lets not get involved with what could be viewed as anti-semitism.

Its been asserted by various parties elsewhere that Kemal,Liman von Sanders,Falkenhayn were all Jewish.There is no basis for this belief.One assumes it is intended as an insult.

MarkRS
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by MarkRS » 24 Jun 2011 09:06

Here! Here! Thanks for the input, Peter

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Tanzania
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by Tanzania » 24 Jun 2011 10:39

. . . . Schwartz had his batteries trained on the Mosque of Omar, and ammunition laying ready for a forty-eight-hour intensive bombardment.
Whoever wrote this information, it sounds very implausible that by the supply problems of the Turkish,
German and Austrian Armed Forces ammunition provided for the 48-hour bombardment of a mosque.
I know that many actions are illogical in the war, but who should command this, and why?

Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

MarkRS
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by MarkRS » 24 Jun 2011 11:22

Holger,

Pierre van Paassen seems to be an early tabloid journalist who made his stories more exciting by exageration. The tidhar text (see earlier posting for link) establishes that the main theme of the story is untrue, so it probably all is. From what I have read one can imply that the Turks withdrew from the city, not in defeat, but in order not to destroy Jerusalem in battle. The Austrian officers commanding wanted to preserve all the holy Judeo-Christian sites without damage.

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Tanzania
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by Tanzania » 24 Jun 2011 13:02

Mark
Pierre van Paassen seems to be an early tabloid journalist who made his stories more exciting by exageration.
This sounds logical. - :milwink: -

Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

mehmetserim
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by mehmetserim » 05 Jul 2011 10:06

i am new in this forum . i want to tell about katirci alayı - mule or mule regiment in galipoli. all members of this regiment were jews. and they fought against turks in gallipoli. i think they have forgetten that their grand dads were rescued by ottoman turks from the spanish masacre in 1492. the jews have a weak memory . they forget very easily . i hope i wont be blamed as being anti semitic that i ve told about mule regiment. an other story about lost of Quds-i Sherif (Yerushalem). the turkish national poet M. Akif Ersoy was in Vienna during Quds (Yerushalem) defence. on 9 th december 1917 , in vienna the church gongs have started to ring very loudly . M. Akif has thought that the alliance powers gained a victory against england and france , as Austria bein an ally of Ottomans . and he asked a priest to know what happened . and unfortunately priest said : christian armies have entered Jerusalem, General Allenby has taken Jerusalem back" with a cheerful voice .. what an alliance !!

MarkRS
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by MarkRS » 05 Jul 2011 11:14

Mehmetserim:
I have no idea what the Zion Mule Corps has to do with this topic, but as you brought up the subject:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ipoli.html
You would not be considered anti-semitic for mentioning them, but for the comments following: " i think they have forgetten that their grand dads were rescued by ottoman turks from the spanish masacre in 1492. the jews have a weak memory . they forget very easily ." Most of these men were Russian Zionists or Jews that had been expelled from Palestine by your beloved Ottomans, who probably had no knowledge at all of the Inquisition more than 400 hundred years before. They owed the Turks nothing. They fought bravely for a cause they believed in and, to this day, they praise the valour of the Turks, they do not revile them like you are doing.

Again, what has this to do with Marek Schwartz?

Mark

Tosun Saral
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Re: Captain Marek Schwartz

Post by Tosun Saral » 06 Jul 2011 19:00

"mule-tribers? ". :D :D :D

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