What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

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stevebecker
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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by stevebecker » 18 May 2015 23:23

Max,

Then what did the 4th Caucasus Corps under Gen De Witt have?

66th Div under Gen Savitskiy
Caucasian cavalry division
2nd Caucasian Rifle Div - Gen Nazarbekian
2nd Caucasian Cossack Div - Gen Abatsiev
4th Caucasian Cossack Div -
5th Caucasian Cossack Div - Gen Nicolaev

Not to mention these Corps Troops

1st Caucasian Militia Bde
586th 587th 590th 593rd 594th 595th druzhinas
11th 13th and 25th Special Kuban sotnias two companies of 2nd Turkestan Sapper Bn 33rd 42nd and 44th Militia (Opolchenie) Sapper half-companies 9th and 10th Turkestan landmark (etapnie) companies + 2nd Caucasian Frontier Cavalry Regt

Who commanded the 4th Caucasian Rifle Division
"Russian advance 4-11.VIII.1916: IV Caucasian AC + Strike group; reserve: 4th Caucasian Rifle Division (16 btns)."

Cheers

S.B

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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by stevebecker » 18 May 2015 23:32

Tiger,

So the reinforcements to the 4th Corps were this new Corps?

"In the battles or after the battles 6th Caucasus Army Corps was formed, this Corps is consists of: 4th Caucasian rifle div + 5th Caucasian rifle div + 2nd Kuban Plastun bde. 6th Caucasus Army Corps took position between 1th Caucasus Army Corps and 4th Caucasus Army Corps."

This poses some questions?

Who commanded the 6th Corps?

Was there any Artillery with the Corps?

(the same as) 2nd Kuban Plastun Cossack Bde Col Krasnopevtsev 2-15 to Gen Bukretov 7-16 7th 8th 9th 10th 11th and 12th Kuban Plastun Cossack Bns

Any more details on these new Divisions

5th Caucasian rifle div -Gen Dubisskiy

4th Caucasian Rifle Div

Cheers

S.B

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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by maxnechitaylov » 19 May 2015 10:16

Then what did the 4th Caucasian Army Corps under Gen De Witt have?
On I.VI.1916, IV Caucasian AC:
2nd Caucasian Rifle Div (4 rgts)
2nd Cauc. Rifle Art. Bde (24 guns)
66th Inf. Div. (3 rgts)
66th Art. bde (24 guns)
1st Caucasian Militia Bde
1, 2 and 3 Armenian druzhinas (commands)
2nd Caucasian Separate Howitzer battery (4 howitzers)
2nd Caucasian Cossack Div (6 rgts, two batteries = 12 guns)
2nd Caucasian Frontier Cavalry Regt
11th, 13th and 25th Special Kuban sotnias
one (telephone) company of 2nd Turkestan Sapper btn
2nd Caucasian Separate Sapper Company
2nd Kars Separate Sapper Company
42nd and 44th Militia Sapper half-companies
= 28 btns, 7 Russian militia druzhinas, 3 armenian druzhinas, 43 sotnias, 64 guns (24 light, 24 mountain, 12 horse, 4 howitzers), 4 Engineer companies
Who commanded the 4th Caucasian Rifle Division
L.-g. Vorobiev, Nicolay Mikhaylovich
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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by maxnechitaylov » 19 May 2015 10:39

Who commanded the 6th Corps?
VI Caucasian AC.

Commander:
14.VI.1916 - 15.IX.1917: l.-g. Abatsiev, Dmitriy Constantinovich

BO, on 1.I.1917:
4th Caucasian Rifle Division (13, 14, 15, 16 Caucasian Rifle rgts); l.-g. Vorobiev
4th Caucasian Rifle Artillery Bde (28 guns): m.-g. prince Vachnadze
5th Caucasian Rifle Division (17, 18, 19, 20 Caucasian Rifle rgts): commander 2.IV.1916 - 16.IX.1917 m.-g. (l.-g. 5.XI.1917) Dubisskiy, Philipp-Stanislav Iosifovich
5th Caucasian Rifle Artillery Divizion (24 guns)
2nd Kuban Plastun Bde (6 btns): m.-g. Bukretov
1st Caucasian Mortar Divizion (12 howitzers): colonel Petrenko
3rd Chernomorskiy (Black Sea) rgt (Kuban host): colonel Galushko
28th Kuban special sotnia
82th Don special sotnia
6th Caucasian Sapper btn (3 comp.)
3rd Caucasian Frontier Cavalry rgt: colonel Ivanov
= 38 btns, 12 sotnias, 64 guns, 3 Engineer companies
Was there any Artillery with the Corps?
See above
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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by stevebecker » 20 May 2015 00:58

Max,

Sorry mate I thought you gave me

4th Caucasian Cossack Div was with the 4th Caucasus Corps in fighting around Van April 1915, did it leave the Corps to move to another by 1916?

Also Transcaspian (Zakaspiyskaia) Cossack Bde formed into 5th Caucasian Cossack Div 11-15

Do you know what Corps the new 5th Cossack Div went to Nov 1915?

Along with the new 6th Corps, what units made up the 5th Caucasus Corps during 1916

Cheers

S.B

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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by maxnechitaylov » 20 May 2015 12:28

4th Caucasian Cossack Div was with the 4th Caucasus Corps in fighting around Van April 1915, did it leave the Corps to move to another by 1916?
On 1.IX.1915; on 20.XII.1915; on 1.VI.1916: in Azerbaijan-Van Detachment (l.-g. Chernozubov, aka Division Commander)
on December, 1916: II Caucasian Cavalry Corps
On 1.I.1917: in VII Caucasian Army Corps (l.-g. Chernozubov), commander - l.-g. Filimonov
since March, 1917: in I Caucasian Cavalry Corps in Persia
Also Transcaspian (Zakaspiyskaia) Cossack Bde formed into 5th Caucasian Cossack Div 11-15
Do you know what Corps the new 5th Caucasian Cossack Div went to Nov 1915?
22.VII(4.VIII).1915 (or - middle/late, July; or - 4(17).VIII): formed Combined Cossack Division (from Separate Transcaspian Cossack Bde, 55th Don Cossack rgt, 3rd Lineyniy coss. rgt and 3rd Ekaterinodarskiy coss. rgt of Kuban host, 4th Kuban cossack battery) l.-g. Nicolaev
Late 1915: renamed as 5th Caucasian Cossack Division
March 1916: added 6th Kuban cossack battery
April 1916: 55th Don coss. rgt transfer to V Caucasian AC
3(16).V.1917: Division sent to the Western front (Finland)

On 1.IX.1915: (yet as Combined Cossack Division) in IV Caucasian AC
On 20.XII.1915; on I.VI.1916; on 1.I.1917: in I Caucasian AC
Along with the new 6th Corps, what units made up the 5th Caucasus Corps during 1916
Sent to Caucasus from the Western Front 1916.

On I.VI.1916, V Caucasian AC:
19th Turkestan Rifle rgt (4 btns)
1st Kuban Plastun Bde (6 btns)
2nd Kuban Plastun Bde (6 btns)
15th and 17th Kuban Plastun btns (from 3rd Kuban Plastun bde)
5th Caucasian Frontier Infantry rgt (4 btns)
123th Inf. Division (489, 490, 491, 492 rgts = 12 btns)
123th Artillery Divizion (18 light guns)
127th Inf. Division (505, 506, 507, 508 rgts = 12 btns)
part of 127th Artillery Bde (18 light guns)
Mikhaylovskaia Militia bde (8 druzhinas)
Russian Volunteer Druzhina
Caucasian Separate Mountain Artillery Divizion (12 guns)
1st Mikhaylovskaia Mountain bry (8 guns)
2nd Mikhaylovskaia Mountain bry (6 guns + 6 Turkish guns)
3rd division of 10th Siberian Artillery bde (16 mountain guns)
5th Mountain bry of 4th Artillery Bde (8 guns)
4th bry of 66th Artillery bde (8 light guns)
41th Mortar Divizion (12 howitzers)
3rd Caucasian cossack rgt (Kuban host)
one sotnia of 3rd Labinskiy cossack rgt
55th Don cossack rgt
Chernomorskaia Volunteer sotnia
102th Militia Horse Sotnia
Mikhaylovskiy Sapper Btn (4 comp.)
2nd company of 1st Caucasian Sapper Btn
39th Militia Sapper Half-Company
221th Reserve btn
= 47 btns, 9 druzhinas, 112 guns, 13 sotnias, 5,5 Engineer companies

On I.I.1917, V Caucasian AC:
Commander: l.-g. Iablochkin
123th Inf. Division (489, 490, 491, 492 rgts = 16 btns): l.-g. Dowbor-Musnitskiy
123th Artillery Divizion (18 light guns): lt.-col. Bulich
127th Inf. Division (505, 506, 507, 508 rgts = 16 btns): l.-g. Ziegel
127th Artillery Bde (36 light guns): m.-g. Burkhanovskiy
Caucasian Separate Mountain Artillery Divizion (16 guns)
Mikhaylovskaia Mountain bry (8 guns)
3rd division of 10th Siberian Artillery bde (16 mountain guns): col. Berestovskiy
41th Mortar Divizion (12 howitzers): col. Rahmaninov
Mortar Supernumerary bry (6 mortars)
3rd Caucasian cossack rgt: col. Efimenko
55th Don cossack rgt: col. Dubentsov
Chernomorskaia Volunteer sotnia
5th Caucasian Sapper Btn (4 comp.): col. Efimov
= 32 btns, 11 sotnias, 112 guns, 4 Engineer companies
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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by stevebecker » 21 May 2015 00:14

Max,

Thanks again great,

Are the commanders for these units known with the 5th Caucasus Corps ?

1st Kuban Plastun Cossack Bde
3rd Kuban Plastun Cossack Bde

Also you show the 19th Turkistan Rifle Regt with the 5th Cauc Corps, what about the rest of the Div

5th Turkestan Rifle Bde formed into 5th Turkestan Rifle Div 11-15 (2nd Turkistan Corps)
17th and 18th Turkestan Rifle Regt

was there a 20th Turkistan Rifle Regt with this unit?

If I may do you have the same details for these Corps during Gen Yudenich CinC Caucasus advance 1916?

1st Caucasus Corps
2nd Turkistan Corps

Just to confirm the units from 1914/15 are still with there Corps or like the 1st Caucasus Cossack Div have moved else where?

Cheers

S.B

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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by maxnechitaylov » 21 May 2015 09:48

1st Kuban Plastun Cossack Bde
3.II.1915 - 1.X.1917: m.-g. Gulyga, Ivan Emelyanovich
3rd Kuban Plastun Cossack Bde


3rd Kuban Plastun Bde was in II Turkestan AC.
Commanders:
22.VIII.1914 - 21.VII.1915: m.-g. Genik, Ivan Adamovich
on 1.IX.1915 and 1.I.1917: colonel Kamenskiy (Kamianskiy)

Commanders of 2nd Kuban Plastun Bde:
30.VII.1914 - 3.II.1915: Gulyga
28.II.1915 - 29.VII.1916: colonel (m.-g. 3.IV.1915) Krasnopevtsev, Alexandr Vasilieich
29.VII.1916 - late, 1917: m.-g. Bukretov, Nicolay Andrianovich
Also you show the 19th Turkestan Rifle Regt with the 5th Cauc Corps, what about the rest of the Div
This rgt (colonel Litvinov on 1.IX.1915) originally was in Primorskiy Detachment (region of Mikhaylovkaia fortress).
Other rgts (17, 18 and 23) were in 5th Turkestan Rifle Bde / Div. in II Turkestan AC.
was there a 20th Turkistan Rifle Regt with this unit?
Wasn't :)
It was with 6th Turkestan Rifle Bde / Div.
If I may do you have the same details for these Corps during Gen Yudenich CinC Caucasus advance 1916?
1st Caucasus Corps
2nd Turkestan Corps
By the beginning of Erzerum operation, December, 1915, according Korsun
II Turkestan AC: 4th Turkestan Rifle Div. (13, 14, 15, 16 rgts, 4th Turk. Rifle Art. Divizion = 26 guns); 5th Turk. Rifle Div. (17, 18, 23 rgts, 5th Turk. Rifle Art. Divizion = 18 guns); 3rd Kuban Plastun bde (13, 14, 16 and 18 btns); 3rd divizion of 9th Siberian Art. Bde (16 mountain guns); Cossack Rgts: 1st Caucasian (Kuban), 3rd Ekaterinodarskiy (Kuban), 3rd Gorsko-Mozdokskiy (Terek host); 14 and 18 Special Kuban sotnias; Turkestan Howitzer bry (4 howitzers); one bry of 1st Caucasian Mortar Art. Divizion (4 howitzers); 2nd Turkestan Sapper Btn (3 comp.); 109th Militia Bde (7 druzhinas); 103th Militia Horse Sotnia; 7th Turkestan supernumerary bry (4 piston guns).
I Caucasian AC: 39th Inf. Div. (153, 154, 155, 156 rgts, 39th Art. Bde = 42 guns); Ekaterinogradskiy Infantry Btn (2 comp.); Separate Don Cossack Foot Bde (raised 14(27).IV.1915; 1, 2, 3, 4 btns); 2nd Caucasian Militia Bde (7 druzhinas); 33th Militia Bde (6 dr.); Caucasian Howitzer Divizion (12 howitzers); 1st Caucasian Separate Art. Divizion (18 guns); 2nd Caucasian Separate Piston Art. Divizion (12 guns); 1st and 2nd supernumerary Caucasian piston batteries (8 guns); 5th Caucasian Cossack Div. (3 rgts, division staff, one bry = 6 guns); 3rd Caucasian Cossack rgt (Kuban); 3rd Sunzhensko-Vladikavkazskiy coss. rgt (Terek); Manjurian Volunteer (partisan) Horse Sotnia; 10, 30 Kuban, 83 Don Special Sotnias; 1st Caucasian Sapper Btn; 1st company, Mikhaylovkiy Sapper Btn; 33th Militia Sapper Half-Company; 6th Turkestan supernumerary bry (4 guns); 6th Armenian Druzhina.
Maslovskiy, on 20.XII.1915: added 264th Inf. Georgievskiy rgt (66th Ind. Div.) and part of 2nd Caucasian Separate Howitzer Bry (2 howitzer) to II Turkestan AC (omits Turkestan Howitzer bry and one bry of 1st Caucasian Mortar Art. Divizion); added parts of 1st and 2nd Separate Caucasian Howitzer Batteries (8 howitzers) to I Caucasian AC (omits Caucasian Howitzer Divizion and 2nd Caucasian Separate Piston Art. Divizion).
By the beginning of the storm of Erzerum transfer from IV Caucasian AC to I Caucasian AC: 3rd Kizliaro-Grebenskoy and 3rd Chernomorskiy cossack rgts.Between I Caus. AC and II Turk. AC there was a Siberian Cossack Bde (from Army reserve).

on 1.VI.1916, according Maslovskiy:
I Caucasian AC: 39th Inf. Div. (143, 154, 155, 156 rgts, 39th Art. Bde = 42 guns); 4th Kuban Plastun bde (19, 20, 21, 22 Kuban, 1 and 2 Terek btns); 263th Inf. Gunibskiy Rgt [from 66th Inf. Div.]; Separate Don Cossack Foot Bde (1, 2, 3, 4 btns); Ekaterinogradskiy Infantry Btn; 1st Transcaucasian Rifle bde (six btns, one druzhina); 2nd Transcaucasian Rifle Bde (six btns); 6th Armenian Druzhina; 1st Caucasian Separate Artillery Divizion (18 light guns); 2nd Caucasian Separate Artillery Divizion (12 mountain guns); 1st Caucasian Mortar Divizion (12 how.); 5th Caucasian Cossack Div. (4 rgts, 2 batteries = 12 guns); 10 and 30 Special Kuban Sotnias; 83 Special Don sotnia; Manjurian (Manzhou) Volunteer Horse Sotnia; 1st Caucasian Sapper Bnt (4 comp.); two companies of 4th Caucasian Sapper Btn; 33 Militia Sapper Company.
II Turkestan AC: 3rd Kuban Plastun bde (4 btns); 4th Turkestan Rifle Div. (13, 14, 15, 16 rgts, 4th Turk. Rifle Art. Divizion = 26 guns); 5th Turkestan Rifle Div. (17, 18, 23 rgts, 5th Turk. Rifle Art. Divizion = 18 guns); 109th Militia Bde (7 druzhinas); 3rd Divizion of 9th Siberian Art. Bde (16 mountain guns); Siberian Cossack Bde (2 rgts, 2nd Orenburg cossack bry = 6 guns); 3rd Gorsko-Mozdokskiy coss. rgt; 14 and 18 Special Kuban sotnias; 103th Militia Horse Sotnia; 2nd Turkestan Sapper btn (4 comp.); 4th Caucasian Mortar Divizion (8 howitzers).
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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by stevebecker » 22 May 2015 02:56

Max,

Thanks very much.

I was going to ask about the 20th Div but I surpose it had left the are by 1916.

Do you have the commanders?

1st Caucasian Militia Bde
Separate Don Cossack Foot Bde
2nd Caucasian Militia Bde
33th Militia Bde
4th Kuban Plastun Cossack Bde
1st Transcaucasian Rifle bde
2nd Transcaucasian Rifle Bde
Mikhaylovskaia Militia bde

Do you have the Bde commanders for these Div's?

123rd Div Gen Dowbor-Musnitskiy 489th 490th 491st and 492nd Regt (12xBns)
127th Div Gen Ziegel 505th 506th 507th and 508th Regt (12xBns)

Can you give any details on this Div

4th Kuban cossack Div

also you show these details

2nd Kuban Plastun Cossack Bde Gen Bukretov

10xBns 8 druzhinas 9 cossack sotnias (Sqns)

Does not this Bde have only six Bns who are the other Bns and Cav?

7th 8th 9th 10th 11th and 12th Kuban Plastun Cossack Bns + ?

Mate just to add, if a Cavalry sotnias is a Sqn of Cavalry what is a druzhinas

and if the 2nd Caucasus Cavalry Corps formed from 4th Caucasian Cossack Div 8-16

where and what was the make up of this corps?

by 1917 it formed 7th Caucasus Corps from 2nd Caucasus Cavalry Corps 1-17

where and what was the make up of this corps?

Hope this is not to hard.

Thanks again

S.B

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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by maxnechitaylov » 22 May 2015 13:20

I was going to ask about the 20th Div but I surpose it had left the are by 1916.
77, 78, 79, 80 rgts; 20th art. Bde.
In 1915 a division sent to the Western Front.
Do you have the commanders?
1st Caucasian Militia Bde
2nd Caucasian Militia Bde
33th Militia Bde
1st Transcaucasian Rifle bde
2nd Transcaucasian Rifle Bde
Mikhaylovskaia Militia bde
Separate Don Cossack Foot Bde

Raised: 14(27).IV.1915.
18.IV(1.V).1917 sent to Western Front.

1, 2, 3, 4 Don Cossack Separate Btns (unofficially, named as Don Plastun Btns / Bde).
25.VIII(7.IX).1916 raides 7th and 8th btns.

Comm.:
28.XII.1915 (? probably, this day he is only confirmed to the post, and actually commanded since April, 1915) - by 26.VIII.1916: m.-g. Voloshin-Petrichenko, Fiodor Moiseevich
by 3.XII.1916 - 1917: colonel (m.-g. 1917) Polukhin, Loggin Vasilievich

4th Kuban Plastun Cossack Bde

Raised: Late, 1914 - Early, 1915.
19, 20, 21, 22 Kuban Plastun Btns.
May 1915: added 1st and 2nd Terek Cossack Separate Btns.

Comm.:
9.I.1915 - 30.VIII.1915: m.-g. Mudryi, Matvey Mikhaylovich
30.VIII.1915 - 16.IX.1917: m.-g. Kruten', Anton Efgrafovich
Do you have the Bde commanders for these Div's?
123rd Div Gen Dowbor-Musnitskiy 489th 490th 491st and 492nd Regt (12xBns)
127th Div Gen Ziegel 505th 506th 507th and 508th Regt (12xBns)
Only on 1.I.1917:
Brigade Commander of 123 ID: since 25.II.1916, m.-g. Gornostaev, Fiodor Dmitrievich
Brigade Commander of 127 ID: m.-g. Maslennikov

IMHO, in each infantry division since the beginning of war there was only one post of the brigade commander.
Can you give any details on this Div
4th Kuban cossack Div
Raised: Late Autumn, 1916.
Since January/February, 1917 on Caucasian Front.

1 bde: 2 Ekaterinodarskiy rgt, 2 Chernomorskiy rgt
2 bde: 3 Zaporozhskiy rgt, 3 Poltavskiy rgt
7th Kuban Cossack Battery

Commander:
24.I.1917 - after 1.VI.1917: m.-g. Rybalchenko, Alexandr Grigorievich
also you show these details
I'm ??? :)
2nd Kuban Plastun Cossack Bde Gen Bukretov
10xBns 8 druzhinas 9 cossack sotnias (Sqns)
Does not this Bde have only six Bns who are the other Bns and Cav?
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 Kuban Plastun btns.
That's all.
7th 8th 9th 10th 11th and 12th Kuban Plastun Cossack Bns + ?
Nothing "+++" :)
Mate just to add, if a Cavalry sotnias is a Sqn of Cavalry what is a druzhinas
Sontia = Cossack Squadron (roughly)
Druzhina = Militia / Volunteer Battalion
and if the 2nd Caucasus Cavalry Corps formed from 4th Caucasian Cossack Div 8-16
where and what was the make up of this corps?
4th Cauc. Coss. Div.; 2nd Zabaikalskaia (Transbaykal) Separate Cossack bde; 3rd Zabaikalskaia Separate Cossack bde.
And I already wrote it :)
by 1917 it formed 7th Caucasian Army Corps from 2nd Caucasian Cavalry Corps 1-17
where and what was the make up of this corps?
VII Caucasian AC: l.-g. Chernozubov
Combined Caucasian Frontier Division (2nd Caucasian Frontier Infantry rgt, 2nd Kars Fortress Infantry rgt, Georgia Rifle rgt, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Armenian Rifle btns = 16 btns): m.-g. Zagiu
Caucasian Frontier Mountain Artillery Divizion (24 guns)
3rd Caucasian Horse Mountain Bry (6 g.)
6 guns from 2nd Caucasian Separate Artillery Divizion
4th Caucasian Cossack Division (4 rgts): l.-g. Filimonov
2nd Zabaikalskaia Separate Cossack bde (2 rgts, one bry = 6 guns): m.-g. Nazarov
3rd Zabaikalskaia Separate Cossack bde (2 rgts, one bry = 6 guns): m.-g. Semionov
1st Caucasian Frontier Cavalry rgt: col. Popov
11 and 26 Special Kuban Sotnias
29th Armored Car Squad
7th Caucasian Sapper Btn (5 comp.)
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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by maxnechitaylov » 22 May 2015 17:32

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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by stevebecker » 22 May 2015 23:56

Max,

Thank you.

Sorry my mistake badly worded.

2nd Caucasus Cavalry Corps - Gen Chernozubov 7-16

What I meant was what was the make up of this Corps?

Mate, Pity I don't know how to covert the Russian to English as the battle order of the Turkish III Army according to Russian intelligence information looks interesting, from what I can see it would be nice to see what the Russians believe the Turks had against them.

Turkish accounts and Order of battles don't show Regt commanders names or the Artillery make ups of Turkish units (3rd Army units in 1914/15) so what the Russians are seeing would be nice.

Cheers

S.B

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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by maxnechitaylov » 23 May 2015 00:31

stevebecker wrote:2nd Caucasus Cavalry Corps - Gen Chernozubov 7-16
What I meant was what was the make up of this Corps?
4th Cauc. Coss. Div.
2nd Zabaikalskaia (Transbaykal) Separate Cossack bde
3rd Zabaikalskaia Separate Cossack bde.
:)

Other units:
see BO of Azerbaijan-Van Detachment.

For example, on 20.XII.1915:
4th Cauc. Coss. Div.
2nd Zabaikalskaia (Transbaykal) Separate Cossack bde
3rd Zabaikalskaia Separate Cossack bde
3rd Caucasian Frontier Inf. Rgt
1st Caucasian Frontier Cavalry Rgt
4th Kuban Plastun bde
Georgia Inf. Btn
49 Militia bde
3rd bry of 4th Caucasian Rifle Art. Divizion (8 guns)
3rd Separate Caucasian Mountain Art. Divizion (12 guns)
Separate Machine Gun command
2nd Caucasian Separate Sapper company
7 and 8 Turkestan Landmark Companies
26 special Kuban sotnia
1, 2, 3, 4 Armenian druzhinas

Or - on 1.VI.1916:
4th Cauc. Coss. Div. (4 rgts)
2nd Zabaikalskaia (Transbaykal) Separate Cossack bde (2rgts, one bry, 6 guns)
3rd Zabaikalskaia Separate Cossack bde (2 rgts, one bry, 6 guns)
3rd Caucasian Frontier Inf. Rgt
1st Caucasian Frontier Cavalry Rgt
Georgia Rifle Rgt
49 Militia bde
70 Militia Bde
3rd bry of 2nd Caucasian Rifle Art. bde (6 guns)
3rd bry of 2nd Separate Caucasian Art. Divizion (6 piston guns)
3rd bry of 3rd Separate Caucasian Art. Divizion (6 mountain guns)
3rd Caucasian Horse Mountain bry (6 mountain guns)
26 special Kuban sotnia
4th Armenian druzhina
Mate, Pity I don't know how to covert the Russian to English as the battle order of the Turkish III Army according to Russian intelligence information looks interesting, from what I can see it would be nice to see what the Russians believe the Turks had against them.
Turkish accounts and Order of battles don't show Regt commanders names or the Artillery make ups of Turkish units (3rd Army units in 1914/15) so what the Russians are seeing would be nice.
"ор." = guns
For example, 2 guns in 9th Infantry Rgt, 4 guns in 31st Separate Btn, etc.
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Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by stevebecker » 23 May 2015 23:14

Max,

Thanks mate,

Details on these new units (commander and sub units)?

49th Militia bde
70th Militia bde


And to follow if the 1st Cauc Milita bde has these sub units,

1st Caucasian Militia Bde - 586th 587th 590th 593rd 594th 595th druzhinas (Militia Bns)

what do these other bdes have?;

2nd Caucasian Militia Bde 7x druzhinas (Militia Bns)
33th Militia Bde 6x druzhinas (Militia Bns)
109th Militia Bde 7x druzhinas (Militia Bns) 103th Militia Horse Sotnia
Mikhaylovskaia Militia bde 8 druzhinas + Russian Volunteer Druzhina (Militia Bns)

Were these Armenian druzhinas in a Bde?

1st 2nd 3rd and 4th Armenian druzhinas (Militia Bns)

are they the same as

26th (part) and 27th Frontier Guard bdes (1914) - 2nd and 3rd Armenian druzhinas (Militia Bns)

or

1st Caucasian Militia Bde (1915) - 1st 2nd and 3rd Armenian druzhinas (commands) (Militia Bns)

and

Combined Caucasian Frontier Div (1917) - 3rd 4th 5th and 6th Armenian Rifle btns

Cheers

S.B

maxnechitaylov
Member
Posts: 107
Joined: 17 Oct 2012 08:48
Location: Russian Federation

Re: What is the role of the third and fourth corps in Caucasus in august 1916

Post by maxnechitaylov » 24 May 2015 01:44

49th Militia bde
291, 292, 294, 534, 602, 575, 612, 591, 598 druzhinas (No. 575 and 612 were transfered from 71th Militia Bde)
70th Militia bde
Alexandropol Fortress in 1915.
576, 601 and 623 druzhinas.
And to follow if the 1st Cauc Milita bde has these sub units,
1st Caucasian Militia Bde - 586th 587th 590th 593rd 594th 595th druzhinas (Militia Bns)
Yes.
Commander: m.-g. Zenkevich.
what do these other bdes have?;
2nd Caucasian Militia Bde 7x druzhinas (Militia Bns)
542, 545, 566, 583, 588, 589 and 592 druzhinas.
Commander: since 19.VII.1915 m.-g. Chikovani, Vissarion Pavlovich.
33th Militia Bde 6x druzhinas (Militia Bns)
193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 611 druzhinas.
Commander: m.-g. Butkevich.
109th Militia Bde 7x druzhinas (Militia Bns) 103th Militia Horse Sotnia
245, 259, 264, 267, 553, 570 and 614 druzhinas.
Horse Sotnia: separately from the brigade.
Mikhaylovskaia Militia bde 8 druzhinas + Russian Volunteer Druzhina (Militia Bns)
230, 231, 293, 505, 582, 584, 585, 596 druzhinas.
Russian Vol. Dr.: separately. Also existed Kutais Volunteer Druzhina and Tiflis Volunteer Druzhina (at each druzhina there was a horse Volunteer Sotnia - Kutais Sotnia and Tiflis Sotnia).
Were these Armenian druzhinas in a Bde?
1st 2nd 3rd and 4th Armenian druzhinas (Militia Bns)
No.

October 1914: raised four druzhinas.
1st: Andranik (Ozanian, Andranik); in October, 1915: Smbat (temporary)
2nd: Dro (Kanaian, Drastamat)
3rd: Amazasp (Srvantsian [Servastyan], Amazasp)
4th: Keri (Gafavian, Arshak) - killed in action 30.IV.1916
(in all: 2500 men)

beginning of 1915: raised 5th (commander: Vartan Megrabian) and 6th (commander: Arshak Janpoladian, later lieut. Grigor Avsharian, later Gayk Bzhshkian) Armenian druzhinas.
April, 1915: 5th Arm. Dr. disbanded; 2, 3, 4 druzhinas were sent to Ararat Detachment (general commander of druzhinas: Vartan Megrabian; later added 1st druzhina) - Van campaign.
Summer, 1915: formed 7th Armenian druzhina (prince Iosif Argutinskiy-Dolgorukov). Druzhina establishment: 4 companies.
16.VIII.1915: all Armenian druzhines were subordinated to the commander of 1st Territorial Brigade.
are they the same as
26th (part) and 27th Frontier Guard bdes (1914) - 2nd and 3rd Armenian druzhinas (Militia Bns)
They weren't a part of the brigades.
December, 1914: 4th dr. in Olta detachment, late II Turkestan Corps; 2nd (in Makin detachment, later in Alashkert detachment) and 3rd dr. (given to 1st Kuban Plastun bde, later to 2nd Kuban Plastun bde) - in IV Caucasian AC; 1st dr. - Azerbaijan detachment.
or
1st Caucasian Militia Bde (1915) - 1st 2nd and 3rd Armenian druzhinas (commands) (Militia Bns)
They weren't a part of the brigade.
On 1.IX.1915: 1, 2, 3, 4 dr. (Andronik, Amazasp, Dro, Keri) - in Azerbaijan-Van detachment; 6th dr. (colonel Bezhambek) - in I Caucasian AC
Combined Caucasian Frontier Div (1917) - 3rd 4th 5th and 6th Armenian Rifle btns
Since January / March, 1916 from six old [the seventh old druzhina, 1st, then was disbanded] Armenian druzhines (and also armenian soldiers of other units) are created the Armenian rifle battalions (regulars).
each btn = 4 companies.
1st Btn (ex-2nd Arm. Dr.; in I Caucasian AC; Erzinjan operation): col. Bezhanbekov, Pavel Petrovich (ex-head of staff of 1st Caucasian Militia Bde)
2nd btn (ex-3rd Armenian druzhina; IV Caucasian AC): col. Samartsian

In Azerbaijan-Van detachment / II Caucasian cavarly corps / VII Caucasian AC:
3rd btn (ex-4th Arm. Dr.): col. Ter-Nikogosov
4th btn (ex-5th Arm. Dr.): col. Osipiants, Vasiliy (Barseg) Kagramanovich
5th btn (ex-6th Arm. Dr.): col. Piromov
6th btn (ex-7th Arm. Dr.): col. Melik-Muradov

http://russia-armenia.info/node/8979
http://warfiles.ru/show-82190-armyanski ... armii.html
http://scjournal.ru/articles/issn_1997- ... 2-2_41.pdf
http://1914.borda.ru/?1-0-0-00000934-000-0-0
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