Turkish Stormtroops

[Paul kyre]

These Turkish Stormtroopers are wearing helmets in contrast to the turks wearing cloth headgear.




the turkish stormtrooper wearing a helmet is in the middle, flanked by two turkish soldiers wearing cloth headgear.[/img]

[3.Jäger Rgt.]

I'm an insignia guy and in my opinion, the Turk insignia with the red and white sectioned rectangle in the Osprey book is incorrect. I am assuming that the artist guessed at the color combination, which does not really even match the shades of colors in the black and white photo. Here's what the original insignia looked like. This is a high quality constructed patch on Feldgrau material and is of typical German manufacture. Though the shape is somewhat different than the examples being worn in the period picture, I believe it to be the same type of unit patch, perhaps made for the German officers and NCOs attached. There was once a unit number "18" on the patch, just below the colored rectangle.

Chip

[Cristiano de S.O Campos]

Jäger


Thank you about your explanation.

And chevron?

is a NCO rank insignia?

it´s a different about my source:

This is all in the appendix and on page 135 of handbook of turkish army 1916, and it also says-
"NCO's are distinguished from rank and file by having coloured shoulder
straps, of distinctive colour for the arm (of service) to which they belong.
To distinguish the different grades of NCO broad traverse bands are added (gilt for combatants and silver for non-combatants). Sergeants have one band, assistant sergeant majors have two bands and sergeant majors 3 bands. Corporals have no bands. The shoulder straps are bordered with red edging. Sergeant Majors also add a red tassel to their side arms.
A further distinction of bands of distinctive colour above the cuffs is now
being introduced: in this case a corporal will have one broad band, a
sergeant one broad and one narrow band, an assistant sergeant major two
broad and a sergeant major 3 broad bands."

Cheers

Cristiano.

[stevebecker]

Mates,

I am at present working on the fighting around Mulebiss and Bald Hill in which the 20th Turkish Div attacked on the morning of the 27th Nov and fought untill the 5th Dec against the 2nd LH Bde and the Camel Bde.

The sucsessfull attack on the 27th Nov drove a NZ Camel Company off Bald Hill with in half and hour and this came as some surprise to all.

Can you confirm that these Storm troops arrived in Palestine and could they have been used on this front at that time.

Also can you confirm the Regt's of the 20th Turkish Div as accounts mention the 48th and 125th Turkish Infantry Regts which were not part of the known regts of the 20th Div (61, 62 and 63 Regts).

Cheers

S.B

[Peter H]

Steve,

Welcome to the forum.

The 48th & 125th Regiments were part of the Turkish 16th Division.Previously encountered by the Australians at Lone Pine,Gaza.

Regards
Peter

[stevebecker]

Peter,

Thanks mate, yes that makes sence as the 16th Turkish Div was to the left of the 20th Div in its attack on the 27th Nov.

And the ID of these Regts could be because they hit the 54th British Div at Wilhelma (4 Northhamptonshire Regt).

The Storm Bn mentioned in its attack on the 3rd LH Bde at El Burj must have come from the 19th Turkish Div but was there a Storm Bn for the 20th Turkish Div or was it part of the one used by the 19th Trukish Div.

Or is it possible that some of the Storm Troops of this Storm Bn helpped the 20th Turkish Div in its attack on the 27th Nov at Bald Hill.

Cheers

S.B

[[email protected]]

HELLO ALL. I JOINED THE FORUM TODAY. I AM TURKISH AND TEMPORARILY IN BAGHDAD. YES TURKEY DID HAVE STORM TROOPS IN THE WWI AND IN TURCO-GREEK WAR OF 1920-22. THEY WERE CALLED HUCUM TABURLARI (ASSAULT BATTALIONS). THEY WERE USUALLY MEN OF BETTER PHYSIQUE AND DREW BETTER RATIONS THAN NORMAL SOLDIERS
AS THEIR NAME IMPLIES THEY WERE USED IN OFFENSIVE OPERATIONS. IT SHOULD BE BORN IN MIND THAT TURKISH ARMY WAS MUCH DEPLETED AFTER 1916. WHEN A DIVISION IS MENTIONED READ ONLY A WEAK BRIGADE, A BATTALLION WAS THE EQUIVALENT OF ONLY A COMPANY+

[Peter H]

Welcome to the forum alkankizil.

Regards
Peter


I think we are talking about a composite storm battalion formed from the old 15th Corps in Galicia.Most German divisions had their own organic storm company by 1917 and I take it that the Turks on the Eastern front copied this trend,or implemented it with German guidance.Hence both the 19th & 20th Divisions would have had a storm company in their OOB before moving to the Palestine front.

The impression I also get is that while other Turkish divisions may have posssessed assault troops none were as well trained,equipped as the 15th Corps veterans.Both the 19th and 20th Divisions were under different commands in late 1917 but this did not stop the amalgamation of their assault troop assets.

[stevebecker]

Thanks Mates,

Yes my reading of the battle leaves that impresion that either a company or at lest a platoon of these storm troops were used against the NZ camel Company at Bald Hill on the 27th Nov that led to their retirment without orders within half an hour of the attack.

The disription of the fighting with out flanking and the large amount of granades thrown at the defenders with there heads kept to the trench by MG's and Artillery would seem to inderate that these storm troops were there and led the attack.

There were a number of Bergman MG's (German) captured some days later with about 150 Turkish soldiers, do you know what the issue was for these weapons and wouldn't there issue be to the better quality troops (like Storm troops) then your line infantry?

Cheers

S.B

[Mehmet Fatih]

Here is a sketch from Turkish WW1 comic book, Safak Gunlukleri.
It is depicting a stormtrooper in Palestine Front.



Best Regards
Fatih

[[email protected]]

TURKISH STORMTROOPERS:


-INSIGNIA / IN THE TURKISH LAND FORCES IN WWI AND INDEED TODAY A RECTANGLE SECTIONED WITH TWO DIAGONALS (OPPOSING RED&WHITE SECTORS) SIGNIFIES ARMY HQ; A RECTANGLE WITH A SINGLE DIAGONAL DIVIDED INTO RED&WHITE: CORPS HQ; A RECTANGLE WITH A HORIZONTAL MEDIAN LINE DIVIDED INTO RED & WHITE: DIV. HQ.
THIS WAS ORIGINALLY THE GERMAN ARMY USAGE.

-UNIFORMS / THERE IS A WELL KNOWN EQUESTRIAN STATUE OF GHAZI (ATATURK) IN ULUS DISTRICT OF ANKARA DATING FROM 1927. ON THE PLINTH OF THE MONUMENT STANDS A FULL SIZE FIGURE OF A STORM TROOPER IN FULL KIT.

A PHOTO OF GHAZI TOGETHER WITH A FRENCH REPRESENTATIVE (1921) INSPECTING 1ST STORMTROOP BATTALLION
( 1. HUCUM TABURU ) IN ESKISHEHIR RAILWAY STATION SHOWS THE SOLDIERS IN FULL ASSAULT UNIFORM: PUTTEES,
GERMAN HELMETS...ETC+

[Peter H]

The 1921 photo from Corbis:

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THANK YOU PETER FOR YOUR PROMPT ACTION! THE OFFICER WITH THE GHAZI IS BRIGADIER ISMET (ISMET PACHA) LATER
ISMET INONU , THE SECOND PRESIDENT OF TURKISH REPUBLIC. THE PHOTO I REFERRED TO EARLIER HAS FRANKLIN BOUILLON WITH THE GHAZI...IF AND WHEN I RETURN TO ANKARA I SHALL POST A PHOTO OF THE ULUS MONUMENT.BEST WISHES+

[Peter H]

Hi alkankizil,

So the 1st Stormtroop Battalion saw action against the Greeks 1919-1922?

Regards
Peter

[[email protected]]

HELLO PETER,

YES, IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER 1921, AT THE BATTLE OF SAKARIA. THEY SUFFERED HEAVY CAUSALTIES.

REGARDS+

ALKAN KIZILDEL