Modern recordings/use of Third Reich music

Discussions on the music in the Third Reich. Hosted by Ivan Ž.
stg44
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Post by stg44 » 19 Apr 2005 00:50

Greetings...

I suppose what I meant by "popular music" was music that was often played during nazi party rallies or official functions and such. Was not much of this music banned after the war? To me, to be able to listen to music from that time period is interesting as it helps paint a picture in my mind what the average peoples' moods and thoughts were, even if so many today regard them as evil. I am at least open-minded enough to realize that not all Germans from that time period were universally evil and many even detested the acts they were forced to carry out. It is unfortunate that today whenever anyone speaks the word "nazi" they often mean it to be applied to all Germans from that time period. I realize there is a difference but many today do not and they "paint with a broad brush".

The Königgrätzer Marsch was composed by Piefke, correct?

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maxxx
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Post by maxxx » 20 Apr 2005 16:44

Ahhh! Piefke! You know his name became the austrian synonym (or even insult) for a "prussian"?

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Johan Björklund
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Post by Johan Björklund » 21 Apr 2005 17:50

I don´t think any songs from that era are banned today. I once looked up a website which stated banned nazi-symbols in Germany today, and they only listed swastikas and runes connected with HJ SS and SA. Oddly enough the flag from ww1 is allowed and often used by right-wing demonstraters today.
It was tha same flag that the Freikorps used when they battled the red front in Germany during the 20s.
Many of the popular songs from the rallies during the nazi-era were just old folksongs which were altered with new lyrics.
By the way, what´s the point in banning symbols and songs. Nazism has survived ww2 and 60 years more. Seems like Germany is hiding from its past.

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Post by Fubbik » 10 May 2005 11:44

maxxx wrote:Ahhh! Piefke! You know his name became the austrian synonym (or even insult) for a "prussian"?
Gottfried Piefke was one of the great German march-composers. Der Königgrätzer has as its trio-party another march, der Hohenfriedberger, because the army corps of the Crown Prince arrived at the battlefield of Königgrätz just in time to save the day, its bands playing just der Hohenfriedberger.

Piefke also wrote Preussens Gloria, one of the favourite marches during th Nazi era.

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John P. Doyle
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Postwar recordings "passed off" as pre-1945

Post by John P. Doyle » 22 Nov 2006 06:15

[Split from CD reviews]
Ivan Ž. wrote: This brings me to an important subject, which is the false representing of post-WWII recordings as Third Reich's. The band most commonly sold as a Third Reich performer nowadays is Musikkorps der Schutzpolizei, Berlin (led by Heinz Winkel). Their recordings originate from the early 1950s and their style was very similar to the one of the Third Reich period. The scammers today only blur the sound a bit and voilà - there's a "Third Reich recording". Some of their tracks most commonly sold as Third Reich recordings are "Schön blüh'n die Heckenrosen" (a post-WWII march with a pre-WWII song), "Westerwald-Marsch" (another post-WWII march with a pre-WWII song) and "Das U-Boot-Lied" (with text modified for the 1958 movie "U 47- Kapitänleutnant Prien"). Another band also commonly misused as Third Reich's is Musikkorps der 11. Panzergrenadierdivision (particularly active in the early 1960s), and their recordings "Westerwaldlied", "Schlesierlied" and "Ein Heller und ein Batzen"...
Ivan, thank you for drawing attention to this important aspect of the music forum.

You are absolutely correct to expose this tendency, which unfortuately has become a habit with too many. I like both pre-1945 and postwar music about equally, and I have a good ear (I would need to!). So I am in a good position to judge.

The Winkel recordings were one of the earliest large sets to be recorded after the War. As you say, their style mimiced the earlier, but it was strictly called "Polizeimusik", as the more stiff, Prussian style was shunned until the Bundeswehr resumed it after 1956. Most of Winkel's material was recorded in Mono on 78 rpm, so the potential for misleading people is obvious. Now that much of Winkel's work is available on (excellent) CDs, there is even more scope for "confusion".

Yes, several of the songs from 11. Pz.-Gr. / Friess (recorded 1961-67) have been "sneaked in". The most obvious case to me is on some of the "Soldatenlieder" albums from Documentary Series (whose productions I judge to be generally excellent). Both "Westerwald" and "Schlesierlied" are there. But this is not the worst of it.

The DS albums about the Luftwaffe are full of excellent songs, but they are almost all recorded in Stereo and have the "feel" of the 1960s or later. I refer to:

"Wir flogen jenseits der Grenzen"
(As this is a "political" song about the Legion Condor, a postwar version is unbelievable!)

"Fliegen, ja fliegen"
(A LOVELY song - but has anyone ever come across a Wartime version?)

"Wir jagen durch die Lüfte"

"Es blitzen die stählernen Schwingen"

"Wir sind die schwarzen Husaren der Luft"

"Flieger empor"

"Kein Tor der Welt ist uns zu hoch"
(A GREAT song, which I have never heard recorded in Mono!)

"Es donnern unsre Motoren"

From memory, there were some other postwar recordings in the DS albums. I seem to recall that "Wir tragen das Vaterland" was VERY Stereophonic, and some other RAD "Pflichtlieder" also.

As I say, DS is a great series - it's just not absolutely purely pre-1945.

I see that the potpourri by Heeresmusikkorps 6 / Heeeresoffizierschule II / Gerhard Scholz (1959) is now being passed off in some places as "Grosses Potpourri der Wehrmacht". I wonder what our friends in the Bundeswehr think?

WE MUST KEEP PRE-1945 AND POSTWAR RECORDINGS CLEARLY SEPARATE. THIS IS ESSENTIAL FOR HISTORICAL ACCURACY AS WELL AS FOR ENJOYING LISTENING TO MUSIC WITH HONESTY.

I will return to this topic again.

Over to the rest of you for now!

From Dublin to Novi Sad - best wishes.

John.

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John P. Doyle
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And then there are the postwar songs of Herms Niel...

Post by John P. Doyle » 01 Dec 2006 09:20

There is another set of recordings that I wish to draw attention to. On several sites on the Internet I have found Soldatenlieder by Herms Niel. The listener is misled into thinking they were recorded before 1945, whereas they were recorded in Stereo circa 1961. They are quite distinctive in that the versions are very short, generally about 2 minutes, whereas the Wartime versions are usually about 3 minutes. This LP is:

"Tschingta Tschingta Bummtara" - Die größten Erfolge von Herms Niel (Elite Special SOLP 30 067). The artists are "Die alten Kameraden". This LP is pictured on p117 of the book "Collecting Third Reich Recordings" by Stuart C. McKenzie where it wrongly implies that the artists were directed by Herms Niel.

So that listeners may recognise these tracks on the Internet, I will list them with their characteristic short durations:

Tschingta, Tschingta, Bummtara (2 min. 5 sec.) / Erika (2.13) / Waldtraut ist ein schönes Mädchen (2.04) / Es war ein Edelweiß (2.23) / Ruck-zuck! (2.20) / Liebchen, ade! (2.04) / Jawoll, das stimmt, jawoll! (2.02) //

Wenn die Sonne scheint, Annemarie (2.11) /. In Sanssouci am Mühlenberg (2.24) / Schön sind die Wälder (2.03) / Es ist so schön, Soldat zu sein (2.23) / Kleine Elisabeth (2.03) / Ich geh auf große Fahrt, Marie (2.17) / Die ganze Kompanie (2.06).

Beware of thinking these are Wartime versions - they are not!

Best wishes to you all.

John.

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 08 May 2007 20:30

Dear John, thank you for your contribution. You are absolutely right about those Documentary Series recordings being post-WWII made (they can be found on their albums about RAD, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine). But I believe they weren't made to fool anyone, but as sort of a "reconstruction", to show what it sounded like back then. Still - they should have stated when the recordings were made, to avoid a possible confusion. Herms Niel's tribute album is also post-WWII made, of course. A big Cheers to Dublin!

Ivan

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Modern recordings of 3rd Reich marches

Post by Uncle Joe » 04 Jun 2007 00:31

Do modern recordings of 3rd Reich marches exist? Soviet marches of the era do exist in modern recordings.

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 04 Jun 2007 09:27

Try to find these LPs/CDs for example:
- Tschingta, tschingta, Bummtara (Die größten Erfolge von Herms Niel)
- Grüne Teufel (Lieder der deutschen Fallschirmtruppe)
- Lieder unserer Fallschirmjäger
- Der Reichsarbeitsdienst [Documentary Series]
- Die deutsche Luftwaffe [Documentary Series]
- Die deutsche Kriegsmarine [Documentary Series]

Ivan

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behemoth
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Post by behemoth » 30 Jun 2007 20:19

Fallschirmjäger notwithstanding, are there any TR marches, Ivan, that you know of, currently used by the German Armed Forces or commonly performed at parades? You are familiar with "Erika" for example being featured on some records. I have seen "Flieger empor" available on 45's at auction. I have heard modern (although not that good...) recordings of "Panzerlied" (not including the famous one from the movie "Battle of the Bulge").

Dave

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 01 Jul 2007 09:26

I don't know about them being used at parades, but quite a few Wehrmacht marches are still being played; for example Husadel's "Kampfgeschwader Immelmann", "Fliegergeschwader Horst Wessel", "Jagdgeschwader-Richthofen-Marsch" and others...

Ivan

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HaEn
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Post by HaEn » 01 Jul 2007 20:50

Funny anecdote.
In 1974, my familyand i went for a visit to our relatives in Holland. We took a side trip into Germany, and i wanted to buy some records with German soldiers song/marches in a records shop. The sales woman almost trew me out. So, no records. After geting back home (USA) we took a short trip into Vancouver BC, and right in the music department of the Hudson Bay company, was "Westerwald", playing on the sound system. I bought both records..
HN

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Post by Schmeisser » 24 Aug 2007 17:25

Ivan Ž. wrote:Grüne Teufel (Lieder der deutschen Fallschirmtruppe)
A question about "Grüne Teufel - Lieder der deutschen Fallschirmtruppe". What songs were used in Third Reich?

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Post by Ivan Ž. » 11 Sep 2007 16:38

Schmeisser wrote:A question about "Grüne Teufel - Lieder der deutschen Fallschirmtruppe". What songs were used in Third Reich?
01. Die Fallschirm-MG-Kompanie (Wir tragen nicht Schmuck und nicht Orden schwer...)
Composer: Oberjäger Dietrich Schulz-Köhn
Lyricist: Oberjäger Müller

04. Fallschirmjäger (Ein Sprung ins Nichts...)
Melody: ?/ Composer: Anonym
Lyricist: Oberfeldwebel Günter Praus
Arranger: Gerhard Pallmann

05. Wir sind die deutschen Fallschirmjäger (Seht die roten Garben...)
Composer: Gerhard Pallmann
Lyricist: Walter Schäfer

09. Glück ab! (Glück ab, Kamerad...)
Composer/Lyricist: Feldwebel Hans Dorendorf

12. Adlerleben (Wie stolz in die Lüfte der Adler sich schwingt...)
Composer/Lyricist: Hans Joachim Thormann

13. Fallschirmschützen, tretet an!
Composer: Oberfeldwebel Zierach; Oberjäger Woitschick
Lyricist: Leutnant Schlichting

14. Fallschirmjägergeist (Himmel, Wolken und Sterne...)
Composer/Lyricist: Feldwebel Georg Eulenberger

16. Fallschirmjäger auf Nachtmarsch (Einsam auf steinigen Wegen...)
Composer/Lyricist: Flieger Felix Kaufmann

18. Wir sind deutsche Fallschirmjäger! (Donnernd zieh’n auf Wolkenbahnen...) * original title: Wir, des Führers Fallschirmjäger!
Composer/Lyricist: Unterfeldwebel Günter Konrad

20. Grüß’ deinen Fallschirmjäger (An jedem frühen Morgen...)
Composer: Hauptmann Stübiger
Lyricist: Otto Laun

22. Fallschirmjäger im Einsatz (Wer kennt die Soldaten im grauen Kleid...)
Composer/Lyricist: Oberjäger Dietrich Schulz-Köhn

23. Das Lied der Fallschirmjäger (Rot scheint die Sonne....)
Composer/Lyricist: Oberjäger Friedrich Schäfer

24. Der fliegende Adler (Wir tragen den fliegenden Adler am Rock...)
Melody: Unsere Garde [Marsch]/ Composer: Rudolf Förster
Lyricist: Gefreiter Hans Preuß



"Wir sind die grünen Teufel" and "Uns gehört der blaue Himmel" are Bundeswehr songs.

No further info at the moment.

Cheers,
Ivan


[post updated on 06.06.2014]

Schmeisser
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Post by Schmeisser » 11 Sep 2007 17:04

Ivan! THANK YOU!!! :)

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