Modern recordings/use of Third Reich music

Discussions on the music in the Third Reich. Hosted by Ivan Ž.
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D-General
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Re: Identification of unknown music group

Post by D-General » 10 Nov 2021 15:18

I see, thanks for clearing this up. Perhaps the source who mentioned it a while back online was just thinking of something else. Thank you for all the information Ivan, have a great day
"Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning."(Erwin Rommel)

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Re:

Post by jbroshot » 14 Mar 2022 19:49

sobel wrote:
26 Apr 2008 00:19
Hi folks, I've followed this topic for quite a while and seen have many threads/links to original German military marches and songs. I would like to ask the following question, The German military have always had a strong tradition during imperial and TR times of using martial music and "soldatenlieder", sung by I assume real people at the time., My question is, post war, what was the attitude towards this type of music?

I have in my collection several Vynyl LP records from the 1960's (for those who grew up with CD's, and MP3's, and too young to remember, these were bits of plastic, with music recorded on them, and played on a record player), these were songs and marchial music played and sung by the post-war Bundeswehr and include songs such as Funkerlied, panzerlied, Prussiens Gloria etc etc.
My question is, does the modern Bundeswher, atoday, actually still encourage it's members to participate in singing these traditional songs or is it now frowned upon?
Thanks
I have two such Vinyl LPs. I bought "Ein Heller und ein Batzen 16 beliebte Marschlieder gesungen vom Soldatenchor und gespielt von dem Orchester den 11. Panzer-Grenadier-Division" in St. Louis in 1968 (!) when I was in college, and some years later I acquired "German Army Chorus And Brass Band - Soldier Chorus of the Training Battalion, Officer's Training School #2, Hamburg & 6th Music Corps of The German Federal Army". The latter includes Funkerlied, Panzerlied and Lili-Marleen.

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slavprussiaottomanfinlandUSUK
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Re: Original preformer of popular internet compilations

Post by slavprussiaottomanfinlandUSUK » 30 Sep 2022 01:21

Hello all,

One of the things that got me to like this type of music was the generic compilations of “Soldier Songs” that are extremely popular on YouTube and the streaming services. I wanted to catalog these in my music collection as well, but I noticed that the information on them is inconsistent and not usually descriptive. For example, the “Bekannte Soldatenlieder” compilations are given credit to “Soldatenchöre” while the same version of the same song on “Gesungene Marschlieder” is given to “Ein grosses Bundesblasorchester mit Männerchor”. There are two other compilations I am talking about as well. “Wenn Soldaten singen” gives credit to “Chor & Orchester des Versorgungs-Battalions” with the same versions as the others.

There is finally “Soldaten, Kameraden - Bekannte Soldatenlieder und Märsche” which does have a different chorus or instrumentals. It is a part of the Jean-Pierre Faur collection, according to the description. I am not sure if the credits are accurate or not, but I thought I should ask. These are easily searchable, so I will not provide links.

When I looked for a possible origin point, I found a compilation on Discogs that shared some similarities. The track list looks practically the same, and it is from a budget label, which would make sense considering the generic qualities of these recordings. I cannot actually listen to it to see, so here we are. [A misleading link removed by the host.]

Apologies if this was a bit of a mouthful or difficult to understand.

Thank you,
Slav

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Original preformer of popular internet compilations

Post by Ivan Ž. » 30 Sep 2022 18:42

Hello again, Slav

First of all (for those that aren't aware of it), all those YouTube compilations and covers are largely made-up, i.e. they aren't official. Also, the performer credits there are often made-up, incorrect or incomplete, and thus are best to be ignored (especially the fantasy credits like "Chor & Orchester des Versorgungs-Battalions", which were ignorantly written in two different languages). Not to mention the bogus copyright claims.

The first performers you're inquiring about (performing 14 tracks in "Gesungene Marschlieder", and all the vocal tracks in "Wenn Soldaten singen" and in "Bekannte Soldatenlieder, Vol. 2", all of which are recently made-up compilations) are a mystery to me as well. Their recordings were released on several LPs, without genuine performer credits (the credits like "Ein großes Bundesblasorchester mit Chor" or "Ein großer Soldatenchor und Blasorchester" mean nothing specificly; they simply indicate that there are a brass band and male chorus playing military music there):
https://www.discogs.com/release/1722964 ... Westerwald
https://www.discogs.com/master/2714045- ... ein-Batzen
https://www.discogs.com/release/1601077 ... arschmusik
https://www.discogs.com/release/6323729 ... Allemandes
All songs they recorded were arranged by Manfred Stachow. The recordings were copyrighted 1972 - at least one group, that is. Because most, if not all, of their tracks were re-recorded, don't know when. They all seemingly sound the same, but if you listen carefully, you'll hear that they're different (for example, compare the tracks from LPs "Gesungene Deutsche Marschmusik" and "O, du schöner Westerwald").

In 2006, their tracks were released on the CD "Bekannte Soldatenlieder - Folge 2" and credited to "Soldatenchor Ginsberger Heide":
https://www.discogs.com/release/1018034 ... er-Folge-2
However, I wouldn't be surprised if that identity was simply made-up (there's a several decades long gap between their LP releases and the CD, which doesn't really have an official vibe to it). I've never seen such a choir credited anywhere before the release of that CD, and there's also a different arranger credited there: "A. Schlucker" (instead of M. Stachow). It is, however, strange that their recording of "Wir lagen vor Madagaskar" appears on the CD, but not on the LPs (at least not on those known to me).

(The aforementioned recordings can be found in several other "auto-generated" YouTube compilations, with phoney performer info crediting "Lübecker Polizeiorchester und Soldatenchor" or "Die Ratzeburger Jäger".)

The performers of the other YouTube compilation you asked about, entitled "Soldaten, Kameraden - Bekannte Soldatenlieder und Märsche", are Musikkorps und Soldatenchor der 11. Panzer-Grenadier-Division under Hans Frieß - instrumental marches excluded. This is the original LP:
https://www.discogs.com/release/1003912 ... -Kameraden
Not sure about the origin of the four instrumental marches included in the YouTube compilation.

Cheers,
Ivan

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slavprussiaottomanfinlandUSUK
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Re: Original preformer of popular internet compilations

Post by slavprussiaottomanfinlandUSUK » 01 Oct 2022 00:02

Hello again, Ivan

Thank you very much for all the information! It is a shame that there really isn't anything to credit to the first group. It can be very annoying, especially on budget releases, where often only pseudonyms are used. On the two “Vogue” releases, I noticed that they each say that the original recording was by “Elite Special”. I found two LPs that seem to match up with the tracks. The first one only has “Westerwald-Marsch,” but the lengths match up. The second appears to the origin of the cover for “Gesungene Marschlieder” and does have better credits, but not for the choir. I imagine that it will be up in the air forever. If you are interested, here are the links:

https://www.discogs.com/release/7606654 ... sel-Platzk
https://www.discogs.com/release/7126083 ... eitung-Hel

Goodbye,
Slav

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Original preformer of popular internet compilations

Post by Ivan Ž. » 01 Oct 2022 00:07

Hello, Slav

No, those records have nothing to do with the performers in question (there are almost no matches). The "Elite Special" was a popular label, releasing thousands of recordings, many of which with the same or similar titles. You need to search for the same group of songs, with the same titles (sometimes slightly shortened or extended), arranged by Manfred Stachow (sometimes misspelled as "Stacho").

Here's one of their singles, by the way (a French release):
https://www.discogs.com/release/1466072 ... alli-Hallo
Performer credits: "Ein großes Bundesblasorchester mit Chor".

Another French release, a 1988 compilation CD featuring some of their tracks (check the arrangers on the back cover scan):
https://www.discogs.com/release/9520290 ... Allemandes
Performer credits (for their tracks): "Ein großes Bundesblasorchester mit Chor".

This LP could also be containing their recordings, but sadly there's just a cover scan (no track info) available on the website:
https://www.discogs.com/release/1090994 ... BCnen-Wald
Performer credits: "Ein Bundesblasorchester mit Chor". The LP contains four titles that don't appear on the albums performed by the mysterious band & chorus, so it would be interesting to check whether this is indeed one of their LPs or not. Unfortunately, it seems to be quite scarce.

Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: Original preformer of popular internet compilations

Post by slavprussiaottomanfinlandUSUK » 01 Oct 2022 19:50

Hello, Ivan

Thank you for the clarification. I might end up getting that last LP, just see for myself whatever is on it. At least we get to know the arranger for the whole thing.

Farewell,
Slav

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