Real Nazi marches played today in public

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Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by Ivan Ž. » 11 Aug 2014 01:51

I was rather shocked to hear the "NSKK-Fanfarenmarsch Nr. 9" played live by the Chilean Carabiniers. I seriously doubt that they know what they were playing (I hope someone will inform their music authorities). This is an excellent example of how a small lie, or a partial information can get really too far. March "Panzerwagenlied (NSKK-Fanfarenmarsch Nr. 9)" was re-released after the war on the LP "War Songs of the Third Reich Vol. 2" (late 1960s) as "Panzerwagen Lied (Song of the Armored Cars) (Fanfare March No. 9)" - without the "NSKK" part - and someone who copied it from there was too lazy to re-type the full title and copied it incorrectly as "Panzerwagenlied Nr. 9", which is how it remained known. Also, people are often mistaken by thinking that the trio tune and the title are referring to the Panzerwagenlied "Ob's stürmt oder schneit". No. The initial Panzerwagenlied was the SA song "Es stehet im Osten die eiserne Schar" and the melody in trio of this NSKK-Fanfarenmarsch and its title are referring to that, antisemitic SA song - the same as in all NSKK marches (Nazi Panzerwagenlied was one of the main NSKK melodies).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHTkON_cigQ

Original title of the march released by Telefunken
Panzerwagenlied.jpg
[/size]Original title of the march and the trio melody from the Lindström rec. list
Panzerwagenlied2.jpg
[/size]Incomplete American postwar LP title
Panzerwagenlied3.jpg
[/size]

Please someone inform the Chileans.

Cheers,
Ivan
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Halle
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Post by Halle » 11 Aug 2014 08:34

Ivan Ž - I expect they know exactly what they are playing . I'm not , in all honesty , surprised .

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Post by Ivan Ž. » 11 Aug 2014 09:54

Halle wrote:Ivan Ž - I expect they know exactly what they are playing . I'm not , in all honesty , surprised .
I really doubt it since the connection between "Es stehet im Osten die eiserne Schar", title "Panzerwagenlied" and the well known melody was basically lost after the war (especially because the Bundeswehr continued using the depoliticised variant of the "Panzerwagenlied", and such a connection was anything but desirable in the new Germany). More info here: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 89#p736416

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Post by Ivan Ž. » 11 Sep 2014 22:06

A French orchestra called Harmonie Municipale d'Avion led by certain Michel Nowak playing Nazi Party marches and official German WWII campaign songs - for the first time in public after the end of the III Reich. Oddly enough, some of them even on a charity concert for children, or in a church. Quite bizarre.


"Jugend marschiert" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYR0c6FfiRo March and song of the SA, composed by Hitler's friend Dr. Ernst Hanfstaengl. It premiered as the main song of the Horst Wessel movie called "Hans Westmar" (1933), and it was also the final part of Hanfstaengl's "Hitler-Suite". This is possibly the first performance of the piece since 1935.

The "Jugend marschiert" scene from "Hans Westmar" (1933)
Jugend marschiert.jpg
[/size]

"Weichsel und Warthe" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0S6UZ58Acg The first official campaign march and song of the WWII, composed for the Invasion of Poland 1939 by Prof. Hermann Schmidt (with Naumann/Gutberlet song in trio). This is possibly its first performance since 1940.

Bombing of Poland accompanied by the "Weichsel und Warthe" march, from "Wunschkonzert" (1940)
Weichsel und Warthe.jpg
[/size]

"Argonner-Marsch" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4xdtG0UzCo Hermann Männecke's 1932 march-arrangement of the infamous "SA marchiert" song (full title: "Argonner-Marsch, nach dem Argonnerlied von H. A. von Gordon, im Trio: SA marschiert 'Durchs deutsche Land marschieren wir'"). Popularized especially by the Leibstandarte. This is possibly its first performance since 1937.

One of the popular Leibstandarte's "Argonner-Marsch" records (1933)
Argonner-Marsch.jpg
[/size]

"Heiliges Feuer" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yFkm-ZBmUo Herms Niel's 1934 march-arrangement of one of Will Decker's main songs of the RAD (full title: "Heiliges Feuer, Das Lied und der Marsch des Arbeitsdienstes, unter Verwendung der Melodie von Will Decker"). The arrangement premiered in the NSDAP movie "Triumph des Willens" (1935), right after Hitler's speech to the RAD. This is possibly its first performance since 1935.

RAD soldiers marching to "Heiliges Feuer" song over a frozen Hitler-frame; from "Triumph des Willens" (1935)
Heiliges Feuer.jpg
[/size]

There are more of similar performances by this Avion orchestra (such as "Wir fahren gegen Engelland", "Ausmarschlied 1939", "Lied der Legion Condor" etc), but these four were really the biggest negative surprise for me - and surely for any civilized and musically educated person. I didn't know such public performances were allowed in France and in the European Union.

Ivan

PS
I wonder if they also play the "Frankreichlied"...?
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Post by Ghjuvan » 29 Nov 2014 18:26

About that, I think people make some difference between nazi and german. After the war, a lot of german tunes arrived in French Army, especially in Foreign Legion, with other words. Nazi borrowed tunes too, as "Horst Wessel" which was sung by communsites under title " Potemkin Lied" ("O Potemkin, du Stolz der Sowjetflotte/an deinem Mast die rote Fahne weht".)
French Army is not quite "leftist"... but there is nevetheless a "red" rune with "1er RHP (parchot ehussard regiment, an armoured aurboirne regiment) Thir song is on "Warschawjanka' tune...

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Post by Ivan Ž. » 29 Nov 2014 19:17

Not the case with "NSKK-Fanfarenmarsch Nr. 9", "Jugend marschiert", "Weichsel und Warthe", "Argonner-Marsch" and "Heiliges Feuer". These had no other uses than the ones I listed (they are real Nazi Party / war campaign marches). Only "Argonner-Marsch" was at the beginning briefly also sang with the "Argonnerwald" lyrics in trio and "Jugend marschiert" was also played as a Hitlerjugend theme in "Triumph des Willens".

The "Jugend marschiert" scene from "Triumph des Willens" (1935); Hitler and the Youth leader, von Schirach
TdW.jpg
[/size]

Cheers,
Ivan
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Re: Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by Ghjuvan » 01 Dec 2014 12:19

About the French Orchestra, there is something more bizarre. I know Avion, it is a old coal miner's town, ruled by French Communist Party from 1936 up to now... and the "Harmonie Municipale" is ruled by them....

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Re: Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by Alexander B. » 03 Dec 2015 08:33

Wow,

I have just now seen their performance of "Heiliges Feuer" and have a bit of trouble believing such a thing is still allowed to be played. I thought surely it must have already been discussed here and it appears that I am correct! I am usually very moderate about showcasing of the original information, but I don't think new performances should be encouraged! The band seems to be a rather respectable one as well, both well schooled and with good funding judging by the costumes and instruments. Interesting that people of such talent could be convinced to partake. I think that my heart would feel a tad stained afterwards.

As far as the Chileans; I agree that there's a chance that they know what it is as well. They may not perhaps grasp the full concept and gravity of it, but their government is (as I'm sure you know) heavily Prussianized and (it seems) a bit insensitive to the history that became attached to many of the Germany military traditions following the second world war. A rather interesting nation in that respect.

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Re: Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by Sturmabteilungsmann » 18 Dec 2015 02:19

Great music is great music, regardless of its political or religious origins.

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Re: Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by Ivan Ž. » 18 Dec 2015 03:13

Sturmabteilungsmann wrote:Great music is great music, regardless of its political or religious origins.
Far from the truth. Every music has a message and certain influence on people's minds (feelings, thoughts and behavior). It is why we call it "music", and not just "sounds". Political and war music, which we could hear here being played live today in peacetime, will always have its political and war message, that is its purpose, that is what it was created for. One can only pretend that he thinks about the flowers and sunshine while listening to the tune to which Poland used to be bombed. Poland lost over 65.000 people during that invasion. Is that great too? Because that is what "Weichsel und Warthe" march was made to be played for.
Telefunken wrote:As far as the Chileans; I agree that there's a chance that they know what it is as well.
Again: hardly.

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Re: Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by gnot » 25 Dec 2015 16:22

Ivan Ž. wrote:
Sturmabteilungsmann wrote:Great music is great music, regardless of its political or religious origins.
Far from the truth. Every music has a message and certain influence on people's minds (feelings, thoughts and behavior). It is why we call it "music", and not just "sounds". Political and war music, which we could hear here being played live today in peacetime, will always have its political and war message, that is its purpose, that is what it was created for. One can only pretend that he thinks about the flowers and sunshine while listening to the tune to which Poland used to be bombed. Poland lost over 65.000 people during that invasion. Is that great too? Because that is what "Weichsel und Warthe" march was made to be played for.
Telefunken wrote:As far as the Chileans; I agree that there's a chance that they know what it is as well.
Again: hardly.

Ivan
Where do I begin? The difference between music and sound has nothing to do with a message. Music is sound which is arranged in a certain way which is pleasing to the ear. If you think that the music should not be played because it has a message attached, then you must also think playing recordings is just as bad. If the message is so bad that no one should listen to it then why even save the recordings? If you follow through with your logic to the extreme then most, if not all German music from ww2 should not be played or even saved. The simple truth is that just because someone plays a march used by Germany dosent mean they are a Nazi.

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Re: Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by Ivan Ž. » 25 Dec 2015 22:27

gnot wrote:Where do I begin? The difference between music and sound has nothing to do with a message. Music is sound which is arranged in a certain way which is pleasing to the ear.
Utter nonsense! Please. These are not some radio jingles/intermezzos "pleasing to the ear" we are talking about, this is political propaganda. You know, there were and still are different GENRES of music, not specifically related to lyrics / written message. They all have different, unique influence on people, by music solely. They are not just a bunch of pleasing, unidentified sounds.
gnot wrote:If you think that the music should not be played because it has a message attached, then you must also think playing recordings is just as bad. If the message is so bad that no one should listen to it then why even save the recordings? If you follow through with your logic to the extreme then most, if not all German music from ww2 should not be played or even saved.
Dear "gnot", there is a great deal of difference between listening to political/war music for historical/scientific research purposes in a selected, private environment - and playing it in public (the same as between shooting a gun at a shooting range and in a crowd in public). The 1st variant is called a historical research (it can also be a private, harmless/influenceless use, depending on the listener/player), and the 2nd (if the musical piece was never put in a proper historical/scientific context, that is, which indeed wasn't the case here) can be considered to be just a political statement for the masses - unless the music was depoliticized in the meantime (a VERY debatable issue, by the way) - and in these particular cases, NO, this particular music was never depoliticized. It still has the same political/war message it had from the start.
gnot wrote:The simple truth is that just because someone plays a march used by Germany dosent mean they are a Nazi.
None of them was just "used by Germany", but created and used by Germany, for purposes that eventually led to the millions of dead people, in one way or another. And the people who play such music today in public, in theory, do not necessarily need to be Nazis indeed; there can be found another word for them, however, it wouldn't be complimentary either.

At this point, I would also like to propose a topic for the next intelligent discussion of this kind, and that is: "Is it really not OK to wear Nazi uniforms in public, just because the Nazis used them - is there any message/meaning in Nazi or in any other symbols, or are they all actually nothing but cool designs and fashion details". :roll: (Yes of course I am being sarcastic!)

Believe it or not, when Niel, for example, composed the "Frankreichlied" - he didn't just sit down and write a bunch of tunes for himself and said out of the blue: "Let's name this Frankreichlied!" No, he had a TASK from Dr. Goebbels to compose such a piece specifically for the invasion of France, to match the particular propaganda lyrics prepared by the SA member Anacker. He used particular historical symbolic tunes in his composition, and they all have a meaning/message. And this is what we call political/war propaganda music. And, yes, it is supposed to be pleasing to the ear indeed - just like the music of the Sirens was to the Ulysses' crew.

Ivan

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Re: Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by Ivan Ž. » 19 Nov 2017 17:03

"Laul surnupealuu sõdurist" [Totenkopf Soldier's Song], a 1944 song of the Estonian SS Battalion "Narwa", played by the Untsakad folk ensemble:



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Re: Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by GregSingh » 24 Aug 2018 12:40

Robert Küssel's "Soldaten - Kameraden" (not sure if this one was a "real Nazi", there was something there about the Führer...)

Here without singing, by Harmonie Batterie Municipale de Calais...

If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

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Re: Real Nazi marches played today in public

Post by Ivan Ž. » 25 Aug 2018 09:40

GregSingh wrote:
24 Aug 2018 12:40
Robert Küssel's "Soldaten - Kameraden" (not sure if this one was a "real Nazi", there was something there about the Führer...)
It is a soldiers' song from a 1936 movie of the same name - and one of the most popular soldiers' songs of the Third Reich. It was particularly popularised at the beginning of WWII, when it was also called "Ausmarschlied 1939" (The marching out song of 1939) and "Der Führer hat gerufen" (The Führer called). It was kind of an "opening song" of WWII.

The song begins with: "What our fathers created was wasted so soon. The Führer called, we follow man after man..."

The "Ausmarschlied 1939" title, from the songbook "Der Führer hat gerufen - Kriegslieder des deutschen Volkes" (The Führer called - War songs of the German people), part 1, 1939 (the songbook title was also inspired by a line from "Soldaten - Kameraden")
SoldatenKameraden1.jpg
The "Der Führer hat gerufen" title, from an "Electrola" record, 1939 (in this recording, the opening lines were reversed; they sang: "The Führer called, we follow man after man. What our fathers created was wasted so soon...")
SoldatenKameraden2.jpg
The original title, accompanied by a photo of German soldiers marching in France, from a wartime songcard
SoldatenKameraden3.jpg
Cheers,
Ivan
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