Values & prices of 78 rpm records

[Tony12r]

[Several topics dealing with the same subject have been merged. Ivan Ž.]

Hello all
I have recently found an unusual record amongst my collection of 78's. The detalis are:

JÄGERMARSCH
Gefällt dir meine grüne Tracht? (Reckling)
Musikkorps d. II. Batl. 9. (Pr.) Inf.-Regt., Potsdam
Dirigent: Musikdirektor Heinrich Dippel
Militär-Orch. mit Gesang

MÄRKISCHE HEIDE
(Paul Lincke) über d. gleichn. Lied v. G. Büchsenschütz
Deutsches Blas-Orchester mit SS und SA Chor
Leitung: Alfred Engel
Blasorchester mit Gesang

What is more interesting is that this is recorded and manufactured by HIS MASTER'S VOICE!! The original sleeve is with the record which is a plain buff colour, I believe that this was a library copy as there are two dates ink stamped on to the sleeve July 1937 and November 1939 when i imagine it was removed from public access. Can anyone tell me a rough value as i am considering selling the record.
Thanks

[Ivan Ž.]

@Tony, you have the HMV variant of Electrola EG 2834 (released in 1933); first of all, there's nothing unusual about Electrola tracks on the HMV label, since they were closely related; most of Electrola tracks were released on the HMV label as well. But the coupling on your record is what is a bit unusual - and it's not easy to find today. Still, even though it's rarer than the original release of "Märkische Heide" (when it was coupled with nazi anthem), this coupling (with 1931 recording of an old hunters' march by MK II./9.IR) is politically uninteresting. So, in my opinion, the rough value would be between EUR 30 and 40. You can try to sell it for 50 too, but in any case don't sell it for less than 30. Of course, if the record is in bad shape, than its value would be max EUR 20. Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Ivan

[Tony12r]

Hi Ivan
Thankyou for the information, you managed to answer all my questions in one go, I used to be a reenactor and we plaed this record on our gramaphone on the bonnet of a jeep, it certainly drew a crowd but didn't quite fit with our Allied impression, the record is in good condition and sounds great. I may offer it for sale on the basis of your kind advice.

Thanks again and kind regards

Tony

[Alexander B.]

Perhaps its a little uncouth to discuss this here, if so I apologize, however I am genuinely curious.
Whats the most you all have ever spent on a 78? Do you at all regret paying what you did for it?
This is not at all intended to be what us Americans would call a "Dick measuring contest", but intended to be a fun discussion.

I'll start up with my most expensive record.
A pressing of "Lola, in des Gartens dunkler Laube" and "Am Adolf Hitler-Platz steht eine junge Eiche" Grammophon 1463.

I had the "Pleasure" of paying 300 Euro for the little thing, a decision that I don't regret, but occasionally shudder at when thinking about, especially when handling it or playing it on occasion, the idea of accidentally breaking it makes me want to cry.


My other question being, have you guys ever been "Scammed" or had a sale go wrong or lose money on it?

I've had the problem twice.

Originally with a copy of Grammophon E-11414 "Gegen Briten und Franzosen" and "Frankreichlied".

A very amateur seller packaged my beautiful new record in a paper envelope! For shipping all the way from Germany!
Needless to say, the poor thing was a mess of shards when it came to me and sadly ended up in the rubbish bin.
Only around 80 Euro, but still a angering loss.

and more recently and more painfully a copy of both (Heia Safari/Ich denk an dich mein deutsches madchen-Kristall label 2159) and (Flieger sein, heisst sieger sein/ Himmelsturmer-Telefunken Blau A 10258)

The two records cost me about 400 euro after what I was charged for shipping (I had asked for full insurance and DHL express) The seller was "Sick" for about a week after I sent my payment and after asking him two more times to send them over the course of the next 2 months, he finally got back to me saying that he had sent them "but didn't have a tracking number". Needless to say they never showed up, and just thinking about it makes my blood boil beyond imagination. When I requested that he find me a tracking number I tried multiple times to contact him again, with no response.
The sellers name is "Grammofox" on ebay and I highly recommend never doing business with him, though he seems to have 100% feedback ratings, he is absolutely one of the worst examples of a German citizen I've ever had the misfortune of speaking my broken German to.

I admittedly hold Germans and Germany to a very high standard, my family is entirely German, our original last name of "Badenhop" stripped away when my ancestors landed here, I'm the first generation to not speak German at home, and had upwards of 30 great uncles and cousins who fought in both of the world wars honorably for what they considered to be the "correct choice", 15 of them paying the ultimate price on the battlefield, I've personally visited a few of their graves in France and Belgium. That is one of my favorite things about this hobby, it feels like a slight link to them and what they experienced. It's quite upsetting to be scammed by what I consider to be "my own people", especially when I've made an effort to learn their language and do business on their terms. Although there are of course bad people of every country, it seems very unbefitting of Germans to do so.

I try to only do business with other collectors I know and have met within Germany (something I've never regretted, and its always nice to see the record store your collections come from), and have never had a problem with them, but sometimes ebay has things not even my best dealers can find for me, and it is then when I resort to it.

I apologize for stepping on any toes, but the thing that annoys me the most about doing business with most sellers in Europe is that they refuse to accept paypal or any form of payment that is reversible in the event of incidents as such. I do not understand the reasoning behind refusing paypal if the buyer pays all fees associated with both the paypal fees and insurance for the package. If you are a good and honest salesman you have absolutely nothing to worry about, it is incidents like this that make me wonder why Ebay is dragging its feet on requiring paypal, as it is absolutely offputting to deal with that kind of drama on a site that is supposed to be reliable and without issues. I am trying to use only paypal for most business anymore, because I refuse to do bank transfer to people.

Rant over, but my opinion of bank transfer is not a favorable one.

Whats everyone else's story on getting shook down over a record deal?
Opinions on payment methods, especially bank transfer?
I bet you Ivan, being such a seasoned collector have definitely experienced such an incident at least once!

All the best, guys.
Loving the forum and all its information, what a beautiful new hobby.
As always thanks in advance.
Alex

[Fallersleben]

Record is not really rare. I have the Grammophon and Polydor edition. Maximum price 100 Euros.

PS: Just found your scanned labels online. Nice collection for a beginner

[Alexander B.]

@Fallersleben
Thanks
my collection is growing slowly but surely, hopefully soon I will be hitting the 200 records mark, I need more storage soon!

I know it's not a very rare record, it was in the middle of one of those "down times" when most of my sources had nothing good and there wasn't anything good on the ebay. This was floating around and I was like...well, OK.
it's my most expensive, but obviously not rarest. That's why I named discussion "most expensive".

I must say that I've never seen the polydor version, care to share a scan with me?

Also, do you have your entire collection or parts of it scanned for me to ogle at?

I never got to see your most expensive piece!
I bet you'll blow me out of the water!

[Fallersleben]

For rare and expensive see topics http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=196757 and http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=214403.

My records are not online to find but you can see some scans in my posts here and some are among the watermarked with 'www.schellackforum.com' posted by Ivan.

[Ivan Ž.]

Dear Alex, I've only now realised that you are the person who asked me a couple of times on YouTube for the tips regarding the 78 rpm record collecting/digitizing (but I never heard anything from you after I replied). So, I won't repeat myself and mention again which are the good and reliable sellers. My advice to you is - stick with them (and I see from your text that you are already trying to do so). And if you buy on eBay - always try buying at least 3 records at a time from the same seller. They will have less chance for breaking as a small group, packed together. If you buy only one record - no matter how it's packed, it has a good chance of being broken. In any case, always - and I repeat - always write to the seller how the record should be packed and insist on it. I didn't have much bad experiences with the 78 rpm record collecting, but then again I entered it well-informed and carefully chose the sellers and sales. I had only three records arrived broken I think, and all three times they were well-packed by professional sellers (people I know and respect). It was not their fault, they did all they could. It simply happens sometimes. But, shipping a shellac record in a piece of paper is something else of course; it is truly the same as throwing it in a garbage can...

Regarding the seller you mentioned - I'll allow it this time, but please let's not make it a habbit of discussing such matters here. The eBay has its section for comments about the seller/buyer, so let's keep it all in there (where the other side has the opportunity to defend itself, while here it can't if it isn't aware of the discussion). Otherwise, some people might start misusing the forum board and writing just about anything they like (true or false, for whichever reason) about sellers/buyers and thus potentially harm the innocent people, their reputations and sales. The unacceptable seller's behavior you mentioned is known to me as well, but I don't think it was the same person (it was a long time ago).

Regarding the German sellers - they are just like any other sellers: human (not necessarily a good, nor bad thing). Don't let your clearly positive prejudices towards the Germans be your own enemy. There are a lot of crooks there too. And there are also a lot of people in Germany as well as all around the Europe who will charge you everything twice than usually, as soon as they realise you live in the US (needless to say that crooks won't care about your ethnicity, even if it's the same as theirs - but will care about taking your money). Judging by a couple of prices you mentioned, you seem to be paying everything (at least the mentioned records) a lot more than for example I did (I payed "Gegen Briten" in good quality tops 40 euro I think; a fair price for "Am A.H. Platz" is around 70 euro, not 300; 400 for "Flieger sein" and "Heia Safari" is also way too much, closer to 100-150 is much more realistic). So - beware. Honesty as well as dishonesty is not a characteristic of a nation, but of an individual.

Cheers,
Ivan

PS
The negative aspects above have been mentioned simply as a guide to what should be corrected and not to discourage anyone, of course. On the bright side, as F. said, you do already have a fine record collection and thus you should be satisfied. Just be a bit more careful and don't hesitate to ask for an advice before purchasing a questionable item or an item from a questionable seller.

[Alexander B.]

@Ivan.

Once again, I very much appreciate your working to get me on the right track with records. I am forgetting that I am in a new hobby, with new rules and new risks. Record collecting as a whole seems to be a lot more high stakes than NBC collecting ever was. I hope you will keep working to get me to a better level of understanding of this hobby.

All 3 of those records were auctions, it was what other people bidding were willing to pay that drove the prices up, as dumb as I am, I actually am pretty good at concealing the fact that I'm an American. I have my post boxes in Germany and the UK and speak enough German that, under most circumstances, I can pass myself off as a genuine citizen. Of course people like Michael and Andreas know I'm American, and ship right to my door here in the United States, but I have found a definite level of hostility towards Americans, hence my mailboxes and attempt to conceal who I really am, as some sellers early on when I tried to talk them into doing business with me would scoff at the idea of even associating with an American, let alone doing business with one. My mailboxes have proved invaluable.

I admit that I do over pay for things sometimes (a-lot of times) that kind of thing only happens around times like now, when there are no big auctions and the big sellers have not much inventory, so I go looking around in shady spots for things to buy, I end up paying too much sometimes, but I feel like its not all that bad, as long as I receive what I paid for, it is times when people are thieves or dishonest which upset me.

Again thanks for bearing with me, hopefully soon I will be able to hold intelligent conversation with the big time collectors such as yourself!

P.S.
What is correct place to ask for advice on pricing of records?
I do have one record right now that I am considering, but would like a second opinion on it.

Regards and thanks
Alex

[Ivan Ž.]

Dear Alex,

First of all, don't be harsh on yourself; as I wrote, above all you should be satisfied with your collection/collecting so far, and I'd also like to add that you have been having intelligent conversations here, and from the beginning actually, at least as far as I could notice. Don't be confused with me focusing mostly on the mistakes; as I wrote and as you do realise now, it's always only for your own (and other readers') benefit, so you could get rid of them and move in the right direction quickly, without stepping on anyone's toes (your own included).

Regarding some of the high prices on auctions: bear in mind that there are many (many!) eBay sellers around the world who have double accounts - which they use (anonymously) to drive up their own prices on auctions. Which is why everyone should be careful and realistic when bidding. Always enter the price you feel comfortable with, and if the final bid is above it, so be it. You will often find an item you "lost" from a "higher bidder" on auction - again for sale the very next week, by the same seller (or by the "highest bidder"). So, never be too desperate and "have to have" an item. Have patience instead, choose your battles visely and you will have less opportunities to lose nerves over the dishonest people.

Regarding the hostility towards Americans/anyone: don't hide your identity - no item is worth it. Instead, avoid such sellers.

All questions regarding the ongoing auctions should be handled privately and always privately. Every bidder's goal is to have as less competitors as possible, so drawing public's attention (in a public place like this one for example) to an auction is anything but desirable.

Cheers,
Ivan

[H.V.Manteuffel]

Hello,

One man is offering me an Erika's shellac 78 RPM record. I'm almost sure It's original but I want to be completely sure. Here is the picture. How much it cost in the market more o less? I want to pay the correct price.

All the best, George

[Ivan Ž.]

Hello, George

This is a very common record and in mint condition it should not cost over EUR 35. Average price would be around EUR 20 or less.

Cheers,
Ivan

[H.V.Manteuffel]

Thanks Ivan for your answer. I will speak with the owner. Then I understand is a record between 1933-1945 period? I'd like to show a gramophone I bought last year, It's a Majesta model and It's attributed but not sure about it. :roll:
Have a nice day, George

[Ivan Ž.]

Then I understand is a record between 1933-1945 period?

The record was released in March 1939 (but recorded in January), and produced for couple more years. Not anymore after WWII.

Cheers,
Ivan

[H.V.Manteuffel]

Excellent Ivan thanks again. Unfortunatelly he wants too much money for it. I will stay alert for one in a correct price.
All the best, George