I will start this post with a conclusion: refrain yourself from posting political and war propaganda material. Meaning: complete lyrics and sound files of political and war propaganda songs. I always advised against it and today I do it more than ever.
As most of you are aware, the internet world, which is currently dominated by Google, YouTube, etc. and to which this forum belongs to as well, is changing like any other world or community. For a while now, it's been subjected to a huge wave of censorship and cleansing of, among other things, Nazi material - particularly from popular platforms like YouTube and Facebook - which resulted in a significant reduction of related sound, video and photographic files on the internet. Especially when it comes to music and videos, which were largely shared on YouTube. In many cases it was a good decision (executed badly and selectively though), but it also reduced the possibility of a related online research to a minimum. On the other hand, due to the sensitivity of the topic, Third Reich military music was never allowed to be researched properly after WWII in the first place, so the current situation is actually nothing new. What was new was a short period of casualness on the internet, which is now over.
War and political propaganda music and film are not in the same category as common images, military orders and documents. They are alive and the power of their destructive message is as strong as it was back in the day. I once compared playing propaganda music to shooting a gun: it's not the same shooting a gun at a gun range and in a crowd of people, as is not the same playing propaganda music in your room for research purposes and in public, i.e. spreading it online to everyone, lunatics included. Because you are spreading a message too, a dangerous and brainwashing one, yet always wrapped in a seductive melody (which, in the German case, often had hidden meanings itself).
Therefore, one more time, please refrain yourself from posting political and war propaganda material. Especially not for the mere sake of spreading and pilling it up in here. Don't misuse this forum board as some kind of a base for extremist propaganda. For you will risk yourself and, even worse, the forum itself being branded as hatred-inciting. And that will not be allowed. We all still have a rare opportunity for an impartial research here (limited though, but it's better than nothing). Don't ruin it because of your obsession with Nazi or whose-ever propaganda. Keep the propaganda to yourself and use the forum for research.
When it comes to sound files, if you need something from this category to be identified, post a sample of the first 30-40 seconds. Always post the sample from the beginning, it's best for identifications. Don't post (links to) complete files. When it comes to lyrics from this category, it's best avoiding them. But if there's a true need to post certain lyrics, as part of a discussion and bigger research, it's best posting scans of original period prints. Because of accuracy and also because it's not as easy to misuse and spread them as is with lyrics in a (computer) text form.
I hope everyone will have enough will, courtesy and understanding to respect and accept what I wrote here. I'm always trying to help everyone, regardless of their private political and other preferences, but some of the recent members are really not making it easy. It's extremely difficult running a section like this on a public forum and keeping it apolitical. And I'm really getting exhausted of repeating the same things over and over, privately and publicly. Please have more consideration for yours truly and his efforts to try to help you.
With best wishes to everyone,
Ivan Ž.
A note on posting political and war propaganda material
Re: Schalmeienkapelle "Horst Wessel"
[Split from Schalmeienkapelle "Horst Wessel"]
A truly great fortune befell me today
Having already given up on the possibility of finding performances of this kapelle without extra voice-overs, I was able to find the first 40 (actually 30, as the last 10 seconds start to fade out) seconds of „Das Horst-Wessel-Lied“ performed by the schalmeien-kapelle of the same name.
I found it in Valentin Antonov's excellent article about the history of the Soviet song „Авиамарш“.
https://vilavi.antonov.space/pes/aviamarsh/around1.html
There is an interesting commentary next to the exhibited specimen:
Internationale - 9:43-10:47 / 11:56-12:53;
Heraus zum Kampf (Авиамарш / Rote Flieger) - 54:26-55:49.
Also, I was able to find another performance. In the second part of the „Apocalypse Hitler“ documentary, „Das Horst-Wessel-Lied“ is played at the moment from 20:07 to 20:24.
[Links to a full-length Nazi propaganda movie and a copyrighted documentary uploaded by a non-copyright holder were removed by the host.]
UPD
It's sad
A truly great fortune befell me today
Having already given up on the possibility of finding performances of this kapelle without extra voice-overs, I was able to find the first 40 (actually 30, as the last 10 seconds start to fade out) seconds of „Das Horst-Wessel-Lied“ performed by the schalmeien-kapelle of the same name.
I found it in Valentin Antonov's excellent article about the history of the Soviet song „Авиамарш“.
https://vilavi.antonov.space/pes/aviamarsh/around1.html
There is an interesting commentary next to the exhibited specimen:
Also, thanks to a tip from the same article, I was able to find 2 more performances by this orchester. In the 1933 film „Hans Westmar“ there are moments where the melody is heard and even the a kapelle itself in all its glory.Collectors have these records. Unfortunately, you and I have no opportunity to listen to them (collectors are very jealous of their treasures!), but we can at least see what their labels look like. Incidentally, the records shown above are interesting in their own right. NS-Schallplatten-Industrie No. 2000 is one of the earliest recordings of «Horst Wessel's Songs», and even in the «original version of the Horst Wessel Brass Chapel».
Internationale - 9:43-10:47 / 11:56-12:53;
Heraus zum Kampf (Авиамарш / Rote Flieger) - 54:26-55:49.
Also, I was able to find another performance. In the second part of the „Apocalypse Hitler“ documentary, „Das Horst-Wessel-Lied“ is played at the moment from 20:07 to 20:24.
[Links to a full-length Nazi propaganda movie and a copyrighted documentary uploaded by a non-copyright holder were removed by the host.]
UPD
It's sad
Re: Schalmeienkapelle "Horst Wessel"
I remember the article and the author, and I found him repeatedly complaining about not being able to hear the full recordings rather ungrateful, after all the info he was provided with by the very source he was complaining about (the article was largely based on the files and info from Schellack Collectors' Forum). Although, what actually bothered me the most was him mentioning and posting a picture of some Neonazi nobody at the end of the article, a person with zero importance for the history of the song. An uncalled-for free commercial for a modern extremist.
Although I've wasted too much of my time explaining people the same thing over and over to the point of getting sick of this entire musical genre, I'll explain it one more time: the "collectors" were not "very jealous of their treasures". First of all, no one stops anyone to work hard, earn money, do a lot of research, locate and buy rare and expensive records. The records are not being kept in some kind of special vault to which only a few "collectors" have the key. One simply needs to be active, follow auctions and keep asking around, looking for sellers. But no! People want everything served to them, because they are lazy, greedy, spoiled and ungrateful (well, not everyone is, of course).
Secondly, there are different laws in different countries. A person living in Russia for example, like the author, doesn't tend to think about a collector in Germany being possibly prosecuted for spreading Nazi propaganda music, forbidden in his country. As I repeated multiple times, Germany is very sensitive about this type of music and rightly so, because it is dangerous and does affect human mind - that is what it was created for in the first place! But no, who cares about the rules of some foreign country about its very own music, and the dangers of ideology responsible for millions of deaths. Give me what I want and be prosecuted, who cares, as long as I'm satisfied and safe.
Finally and least importantly, when I myself started collecting records, I simultaneously shared them online as well (it was all apolitical stuff). And very soon I found the music I shared for free being sold by some jerk on Amazon. And it's not a pleasant feeling giving crooks material to earn cash from. Not to mention various psychos I met on YouTube, here and elsewhere, copying the files and all my research I shared for free out of my good will and misrepresenting them as their own, and all the rude and perverted messages I got from them. Eventually, as I wrote, I got sick of everyone and everything, because those are not the kind of people I want deal with in my short life (life is always short, no matter how long it is).
Some people tend to comment on this kind of issues with a simple thought: "What you share online belongs to everyone." Sure, why not. But does that exclude having any moral principles or just basic human courtesy? A rhetorical question, in my mind at least. So, the next time anyone thinks of complaining about not getting more stuff for free and critisising complete strangers for not fulfilling their wishes, take a look in the mirror first and think about all that you never did for any of those people, about who gave you this dumb idea in the first place, that people you don't know owe you anything, and think about those responsible for killing the good people's enthusiasm, before characterising it as jealousy or stinginess.
Cheers!
Ivan
Although I've wasted too much of my time explaining people the same thing over and over to the point of getting sick of this entire musical genre, I'll explain it one more time: the "collectors" were not "very jealous of their treasures". First of all, no one stops anyone to work hard, earn money, do a lot of research, locate and buy rare and expensive records. The records are not being kept in some kind of special vault to which only a few "collectors" have the key. One simply needs to be active, follow auctions and keep asking around, looking for sellers. But no! People want everything served to them, because they are lazy, greedy, spoiled and ungrateful (well, not everyone is, of course).
Secondly, there are different laws in different countries. A person living in Russia for example, like the author, doesn't tend to think about a collector in Germany being possibly prosecuted for spreading Nazi propaganda music, forbidden in his country. As I repeated multiple times, Germany is very sensitive about this type of music and rightly so, because it is dangerous and does affect human mind - that is what it was created for in the first place! But no, who cares about the rules of some foreign country about its very own music, and the dangers of ideology responsible for millions of deaths. Give me what I want and be prosecuted, who cares, as long as I'm satisfied and safe.
Finally and least importantly, when I myself started collecting records, I simultaneously shared them online as well (it was all apolitical stuff). And very soon I found the music I shared for free being sold by some jerk on Amazon. And it's not a pleasant feeling giving crooks material to earn cash from. Not to mention various psychos I met on YouTube, here and elsewhere, copying the files and all my research I shared for free out of my good will and misrepresenting them as their own, and all the rude and perverted messages I got from them. Eventually, as I wrote, I got sick of everyone and everything, because those are not the kind of people I want deal with in my short life (life is always short, no matter how long it is).
Some people tend to comment on this kind of issues with a simple thought: "What you share online belongs to everyone." Sure, why not. But does that exclude having any moral principles or just basic human courtesy? A rhetorical question, in my mind at least. So, the next time anyone thinks of complaining about not getting more stuff for free and critisising complete strangers for not fulfilling their wishes, take a look in the mirror first and think about all that you never did for any of those people, about who gave you this dumb idea in the first place, that people you don't know owe you anything, and think about those responsible for killing the good people's enthusiasm, before characterising it as jealousy or stinginess.
Cheers!
Ivan
Re: Schalmeienkapelle "Horst Wessel"
That's why I flagged this comment, as it seems rather odd. On the other hand, it is also understandable, as the mentality in our countries is quite different, and the concept of „ownership“ of such things is also different. If in the West they respect personal (not to be confused with private) property, then in Russia, because of the historical events that are quite clear to everyone present, the attitude to such things is quite different. If a person has something, he or she must (in the opinion of the bearers of this mentality) share it.
In addition to the negative sides you have quite rightly mentioned, there is also a good side to it. For all my conscious activity in the world network-Internet, I haven't found a single Western site, where they put in free access quality digitised records and their labels, while in the Ru-segment there is a site „Russian-Records“ (https://www.russian-records.com/index.p ... &l=english), which allows all interested people to touch with their, ahem, eardrums to the most interesting historical materials of the past.
I am, of course, in favour of the fact that a person, if he has records at his disposal, should put them on sites like „Russian-Records“, however, if another person will use these materials, should necessarily indicate in all sorts of places that this material is not his and it belongs to another person with the indication of the source.
In addition to the negative sides you have quite rightly mentioned, there is also a good side to it. For all my conscious activity in the world network-Internet, I haven't found a single Western site, where they put in free access quality digitised records and their labels, while in the Ru-segment there is a site „Russian-Records“ (https://www.russian-records.com/index.p ... &l=english), which allows all interested people to touch with their, ahem, eardrums to the most interesting historical materials of the past.
I am, of course, in favour of the fact that a person, if he has records at his disposal, should put them on sites like „Russian-Records“, however, if another person will use these materials, should necessarily indicate in all sorts of places that this material is not his and it belongs to another person with the indication of the source.
Re: Schalmeienkapelle "Horst Wessel"
Hello, Eeafanas
You're missing the point. When it comes to Germany and sharing propaganda music, it's not a matter of ownership or generosity, but of political activity. You can have serious problems for distributing extremist material there and that is indeed the way it should be. Because, sadly, people do NOT learn from history and mistakes of the mankind, but prefer to repeat them instead.
Sharing stuff without any expense, effort and responsibility, i.e. forwarding material other people bought, spent time digitising and shared, is indeed very easy, and there's a lot of people doing that. But it's not an act of generosity. It's the other guys that were generous, and there's not a lot of them. Otherwise, the internet, eastern, western or whichever, would be flooded with absolutely everything. And you never hear the generous people, those that spend their time and money, complaining or asking for something. It's always the other guys, those that give nothing, that ask for more and whine when not getting it. It's what we call in everyday life - spoiled brats.
If russian-records.com is the only website you found with digitised records, then you haven't really browsed through the non-Russian part of the internet, including this very forum. And let's not go into a cold-war-type of debate comparing the East and West here, it's pointless.
Cheers,
Ivan
You're missing the point. When it comes to Germany and sharing propaganda music, it's not a matter of ownership or generosity, but of political activity. You can have serious problems for distributing extremist material there and that is indeed the way it should be. Because, sadly, people do NOT learn from history and mistakes of the mankind, but prefer to repeat them instead.
Sharing stuff without any expense, effort and responsibility, i.e. forwarding material other people bought, spent time digitising and shared, is indeed very easy, and there's a lot of people doing that. But it's not an act of generosity. It's the other guys that were generous, and there's not a lot of them. Otherwise, the internet, eastern, western or whichever, would be flooded with absolutely everything. And you never hear the generous people, those that spend their time and money, complaining or asking for something. It's always the other guys, those that give nothing, that ask for more and whine when not getting it. It's what we call in everyday life - spoiled brats.
If russian-records.com is the only website you found with digitised records, then you haven't really browsed through the non-Russian part of the internet, including this very forum. And let's not go into a cold-war-type of debate comparing the East and West here, it's pointless.
Cheers,
Ivan
Re: Schalmeienkapelle "Horst Wessel"
Oh, I forgot about „Internet Archive“ (https://archive.org/), that's right.
Ivan, I don't want to get into these pointless arguments, as I realise they will lead nowhere. I just pointed out the difference in mentalities, as I believe this is the root cause of the different attitudes towards the availability of different materials. You are a long-established person in life, I am just a young student, there is no sense for me to find out who is cooler, because I myself still need to find out how I will help this doomed world.
Re: Schalmeienkapelle "Horst Wessel"
The same as YouTube, the Internet Archive has only a few genuine collectors' profiles/channels.
For additional info and the websites I had in mind, see this forum thread: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=129878
Cheers,
Ivan
For additional info and the websites I had in mind, see this forum thread: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=129878
Cheers,
Ivan
Re: Schalmeienkapelle "Horst Wessel"
Wow, thank you so much!Ivan Ž. wrote: ↑14 Apr 2024, 14:40For additional info and the websites I had in mind, see this forum thread: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=129878
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ThatShellacGeek
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Re: A note on posting political and war propaganda material
I agree wholeheartedly with this. I haven't been collecting these NS-era records for very long (maybe 3 years now), but even when just I started and people learnt via Discogs or elsewhere that I'm in possession of political recordings I instantly was hit up by users asking for sound files. At first I felt pressured to since I didn't want to be seen as a 'not wanting to share my toys' type, but when I realized these files would likely end up on Youtube or (god forbid) Bitchute for extremists to moon over, those worries disappeared in a flash. It is the unfortunate truth that sharing files to spread information comes with the consequence of potentially aiding the modern white supremacist music scene, and I just can't take that risk.