Greek weapons and vehicles

[Idomeneas]

Regarding the infantry weapons of the Hellenic Army, at the beginning of the GrecoItalian war (28 October 1940) the following issues were in service:

Mortars
323 Brandt M.1927/31 81mm

Machine Guns
400 Hotchkiss M.1914 7,92mm
1,752 Hotchkiss M.1926 7,92mm
2,300 Saint Etienne M.1907 T 8mm
230 Schwarzlose 6,5mm
170 Maxim (sMG 08) M.1908 7,92mm

Automatic Weapons
200 Hotchkiss M.1922 7,92mm
6,000 Hotchkiss M.1926 6,5mm
7.000 Chauchat M.1915 8mm

Rifles&Carbines
50,000 Mauser 7,92mm
196,050 Mannlicher-Schönauer M.1903/14/27 6,5mm
33,650 Mannlicher-Schönauer M.1903/14/30 6,5mm (Carbines)
10,150 Mauser 7,65mm (Carbines)
16,000 Mannlicher 8mm
27,000 Mannlicher-Berthier M.1907/15 8mm
15,000 Mannlicher-Berthier M.1892 8mm
16,000 Lebel M.1886/93 8mm (Rifles/Grenade Launchers)
60.000 Gras M.1874 11mm (Rifles&Carbines)

9,150 Mauser 7,92mm rifles for Gendarmerie
700 Mannlicher 8mm carbines for Gendarmerie
26.000 Mauser 7,65mm rifles for Navy

Pistols&Revolvers
1,150 Colt Army Special 0.38’’ Special
9,980 Browing M.1910/22 9mm
2,900 Ruby-Martian M.1914 7,65mm
550 Nagant M.1898 7,62mm

[jopaerya]

Hello All

Does anyone know if this gun is Greek or is it imported ???
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=136241

Regards Jos

[Idomeneas]

Dear jopaerya,

Greece was not manufacturing guns before, or during the WW II.

Regards,
Idomeneas

[jopaerya]

Thanks Idomeneas

For your reply , I have heard from others that most 2 cm Flak gun that the Greek Army
used where German 2 cm Flak 30 , do you have any clue on the 2 cm gun in the other
Topic ???

Regards Jos

[Idomeneas]

Dear jopaerya,

Sorry for the delay.
Regarding the specific antiaircraft gun of the photo you have posted, I asked a friend's help and he informed me that it is definitively a Solothurn ST-5 20mm antiaircraft gun (from which the Flaks 30 and 38 were developed later).

See Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_cm_FlaK_30

The Hellenic Navy actually acquired ST-5s for the antiaircraft defence of the ships.
No source indicates that these guns were dedicated in the coastal defence fortresses of the Hellenic Navy.
Later the Hellenic Army acquired Flak 30 guns.

How are you sure that the photo you have posted, manned by German crew, displays a captured ex-greek gun? Since those guns were aboard combat ships, I don't think they were mounted in a tripod, like the one on your photo.
As you well understand the German Navy had ST-5s in service, so maybe this is a german naval crew manning this german gun for the antiaircraft defence of a german naval base/station in occupied Greece (maybe Crete?).

Regards Idomeneas

[jopaerya]

Thanks Idomeneas

That is what I am searching for , a Solothurn ST-5 , that
is good news. Thanks again for your time and effort .

Regards Jos

[Dili]

What would be those Greek ships? I have been making a list of Greek ships and its weapons and i don't see any Greek ship with 20mm guns except Vasilefs Georgios with 20mm Oerlikon when it was operating with Royal Navy in 1942.

[Dili]

Resurrecting this thread from this site:http://xoomer.virgilio.it/ramius/Milita ... e_2gm.html it lists the following Greek guns captured by Italy:

20/ ? TS M 101 AA Gun manufacturer unknown maybe can give some light about what model.
37/20 M 16 Putezux Gun
65/18 M 06 Schneider Gun
75/13 M 15 Skoda Mt. Howitzer 26 captured
75/ ? M 06/09 Skoda Gun
80/48 Bofors AA gun
85/33 M 25 Schneider Gun
102/50 Gun
105/11 M 19 e M 28 Schneider Mt. Howitzer 13 captured
105/29 L M 25 Schneider Gun 20 captured
155/14 C M 17 Schneider Howitzer 96 captured
203/45 Armstrong Gun 4 Captured

[Idomeneas]

Very interesting site.
Regarding the armament of the greek ships, do you have any detail about the guns of the 6 submarines in service?
Is there any detailed site, recording the armament of the greek ship during WW II?

Idomeneas

[Dili]

My data from several sites including http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/oldShips_en.asp says for for Katsonis 100mm gun (don't have the model) - and 2 AAMG. I have an image of a model replica that have a gun to the back too. Protefs also 100mm with 40mm. I also saw 102mm but less often. The 100mm model probably are one of this French guns: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_39-45_m1892.htm as you can see there aren't a great deal of info about 100mm French guns in English literature. Note there are several mistakes in information around including the official website above about greek ships.

Unfortunately good WWII Greek ships photos are also rare to find in Web contrary to Yugoslav for example.

[Dili]

One question, do you know what torpedos they had? 533mm wasn't a French calibre, they had only 550mm and 400mm so the shipyard had to put a foreign design in it.

[Idomeneas]

In the Athens War Museum, a defused torpedo is displayed, with the indication that is a british 535mm M1937 torpedo, used by Papanikolis submarine

Idomeneas

[Dili]

Thanks 535 is obviously a typo, "British" is a reference. M 1937 might just means the year it was bought since British had roman numerals to designate their torpedos. it was probably a VIII Torpedo that was operational in Royal Navy since 1927.

I have found reference but it is for ships that escaped to Alexandria http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTBR_WWII.htm

[Idomeneas]

After a small research I made, I found that in 1914 the Hellenic Navy ordered Swartzkopff 450mm torpedoes from Germany and another order followed in 1924 for Whitehead 533mm. The later were supposed to equip the destroyers and the newly ordered submarines.
I do not know if any other order followed.

Idomeneas

[Dili]

Thank you Idomeneas. I suppose Greece might also have got some "captured" 450mm Whitehead after WW1 since it got several ex.Austro Hungarian torpedo boats. The buy was of 533mm was to Whitehead of Fiume? Since 1922 was under Italian de facto regency.

After the World War I, when new borders between Yugoslavia and Italy were formed, the western part of the city, in which the factory was situated, was assigned to Italy, so the Italian military industry entered in the production of torpedoes in 1924. The factory was given a new name, “Societa di esercizio Stabilimenti Whitehead”, and from 1930, “Silurificio Whitehead di Fiume” S.A.

http://www.torpedo150rijeka.org/I-konfe ... vijest.asp

1924: after the end of the World War 1, what remained of the WHITEHEAD Establishments is taken over by the ORLANDO Family and the Company takes the name of “Silurificio WHITEHEAD” Società Anonima Fiume.

http://www.wass.it/WASSWEB/index.php?op ... Itemid=342

Seems WASS are the heirs of Whitehead.