Reichssieger 1938 & 1939

Richard van Kempen · Post by **Richard van Kempen** » 13 Aug 2003 21:51

The eagles head again top,1938 Reich, middle 1939 Reich ,1938 Kries

There are again major differences in the 1938 Reichssieger

1. I Don't know the correct English word for it but the feather on his elbow is straight while it should bend out at the end (see pic).
2. Upper arm is shorter .
3. His schoulder is longer.
4. The cheek looks more like he's got a bigger back of his head (should be more towards his beak).
5. The eyes are lower and got a bigger upper head.
6. Angle of his mouth is steeper.
7. Shorter beak (should be like the other beaks) it looks more like an Aurich but again shorter.
8. Shorter neck and wider.

As i just saw the pictures of the catch i don't have a compare pic of that part.
But what i think is strange again on the 1938 is that it's a flatwire catch,never seen that before and in my files there is not flatwire catch to be found, only roundwire and a big catch block like on your 1939 Riechsieger.
The pin seems to be allot shorter (couldn't see very well),it should stick out about 8 to 10 mm.

Although i'm still not sure about the authenticity of the 1938. it could be another die and this is the only one i've seen like this.

Personally i would go for the 1939 Reichsieger it's a textbook example (wish i had the money for it

)

Maybe Raz can show his badge.

Hope it helps

Richard van Kempen

scowen · Post by **scowen** » 13 Aug 2003 23:24

Richard,

Thanks for all your excellent work. You have obviously love these badges. I can see & agree with all the points you have raised.

I didn't like the '38 the moment I opened it, purely because of the white enamel, plus the gilding on the wreath looked wrong to me but I don't know why.

I have some more pix of the pin & catch which I can post for you tomorrow. The pins on both of the badges end at the edge of the wreath. Have you seen the block type catch that is on the (possibly good) '39 badge on a Brehmar before? I have seen them on other makes but not Brehmar.

Thanks for all you time & help Richard. I'll post the other pix tomorrow.

Cheers
Don

Richard van Kempen · Post by **Richard van Kempen** » 13 Aug 2003 23:31

The 1939 Reichssieger badge is in my opinion a textbook example the only thing bad about it ,is that its not in my collection

Here is a pic of a Gausieger 1939 (reverse pic of the block catch) source Weitze

Richard

P.S. i love these badges?......i'm obsessed by them AAARRRRGGGHHHH

scowen · Post by **scowen** » 14 Aug 2003 17:28

Richard,

Thanks to your obsession, you may have saved me a lot of money so thank you

I have prepared some pix of the pins down for you reference library if you want them.

Also while studying your points I noticed some slight difference in the number "9" in the dates 19 on the badges which I have cropped for your opinion.

Lastly, did you notice the gap between the cog wheel & wreath & wing tip & wreath? I have pix to show what I mean also.

Here goes.

Cheers
Don

scowen · Post by **scowen** » 14 Aug 2003 17:29

scowen · Post by **scowen** » 14 Aug 2003 17:30

Number 9 from 38 "thicker" than 39.

scowen · Post by **scowen** » 14 Aug 2003 17:36

I noticed a gap between the area where the eagle & wreath join.

scowen · Post by **scowen** » 14 Aug 2003 17:37

No gap on '39. Plus a small bump or blob in the centre of wreath under the cog so you cant see it normally, (possibly similar dots as at the top of the wreath?) not present on '38

Have seen gaps on others?

Cheers
Don

Macmedal · Post by **Macmedal** » 14 Aug 2003 22:56

Richard

Thanks for the excellent input. Some very detailed observations.

Nick

Richard van Kempen · Post by **Richard van Kempen** » 15 Aug 2003 05:37

Thank you Nick

BTW the 1938 Badge was on Detlevs reproduction of the week a few months back.

I completly fogot about it untill pointed out to me

Richard

Matt Gibbs · Post by **Matt Gibbs** » 18 Aug 2003 00:15

Just out of interest is the funny pearlescent effect on the back of the 38 visible or just the photo. Makes me wonder.
I like the 1939 badge much more than the 38 just because of the point mentioned about the enamel colour. Of course, these were high end badges for the HJ but still, there's new and new looking!
One point that hasn't really come across from Richard is just how many of the different types were made and how many winners there woudl be. I find it highly likely that makers might have had mroe than one die blank to make these which 'might' account for slight variations. Has anybody got any thougths on this..? I don't know, for lack of getting at my books, how many were awarded in 38 and 39....
Regards
Matt Gibbs

scowen · Post by **scowen** » 18 Aug 2003 05:32

According to Lumbsden, 508 gold were awarded in 1939. I don't have figures for '38.

Oh, yes the pearlescent is very visable.

Cheers
Don

scowen · Post by **scowen** » 18 Aug 2003 05:44

By the way, I'm keeping the '39 but the '38 is going back. If anyone here does want it let me know. It'll save on the hassle of posting back to the States.

Cheers
Don

Matt Gibbs · Post by **Matt Gibbs** » 18 Aug 2003 15:03

Whereabouts did you get the badge from, just out of interest..? If you wouldn't like to post it a PM would be helpful,
Kind Regards
Matt Gibbs