Aanti-partisan badge....Bandenkampfabzeichen

Discussions on Axis awards and decorations. Hosted by John G & William Kramer.
Keith Loughmiller
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With your

Post by Keith Loughmiller » 28 Apr 2002 03:27

kind help Mr. Honts, I would be willing to post pics of another of my antipartisan badges. Can I send you the images? Thanks, Bo

Keith Loughmiller
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For MarK III

Post by Keith Loughmiller » 28 Apr 2002 03:31

I think, the diamond antipartisan was awarded to personel who had already won the RK, and then were intitled to recieve the GOLD antipartisan badge. I'm not sure on this, but that is my understanding on it. Anyone else have info on this?

RF HONTS
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Bo

Post by RF HONTS » 28 Apr 2002 04:53

Bo,

That would be fine. Please email my any photos you would like posted.

Roger

WCSTUMP
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ANTI-PARTISIAN BADGE WITH BRILLIANTS

Post by WCSTUMP » 28 Apr 2002 06:23

Since I never rely on, OR ACCEPT, opinions, speculations or hearsay evidence as a deciding factor. I don't expect anyone to accept my following opinion, speculation and theory about this badge.

In all my travels and research, I never encountered one of these badges in any collection anywhere in the collecting world. Did they institute, produce or award this badge, even on paper? I have never seen any documented factual proof that they did. Does that mean that just because I haven't seen one that one was not produced or awarded? Certainly not, but I highly doubt it. In my opinion is any such badge, and I seen Roger's and one other his like IN HAND, a period badge? HECK NO. Do I think Herr Huesken's is an original period piece? HECK NO. I don't think one was ever produced or issued, but that is just my humble opinion and speculation. My theory is that these badges are just "ILLUSIONS" of what might have been. As Robert Ripley always said: BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

For the party wanting to know what is written on the pin it is 800 (for the silver content) and "C. E. JUNKER, BERLIN" written in scrip. IF anyone wishes a clear scan of the markings, email ROGER and I am sure he will send you a nice color close up to you as my posting skills are off tonight.

NOTE: Like some one said earlier, "Opinions are like noses. EVERYBODY has one."

Paddy Keating
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Post by Paddy Keating » 28 Apr 2002 10:38

Dear Mr Stump,

I tend to agree with your comments about the Bandenkampfabzeichen in Gold mit Brillianten belonging to Messrs Hüsken and Honts. But I fear that to continue any discussion of these badges here might run the risk of upsetting Mr Honts more than I clearly have upset him already.

My dear Mr Honts: I have only had one indisputably original Anti-Partisan Warfare Badge in my collecting life, a C E Juncker-made semi-hollow version in bronze, although most of the bronze wash had been absorbed by the feinzink base material. This badge is now owned by a friend of mine. As for showing you badges from my collection rather than photographs, I do not really understand what you mean. How am I to show you anything through this internet medium if it is not in digital photographic form?

There again, reading through this forum, I cannot help but notice that you are a rather feisty, punchy sort of a man (not that there's anything wrong with that) and I would not wish to become involved in some kind of a feud with you just because I did not like some badges you own. You already seem to be upset with me. And here was myself thinking that this was a forum for discussion. So I think we should just agree to disagree like two grown men because once it gets to talk of showing class in a confrontation, it has already gone too far to be friendly.

Incidentally, the case containing your Bandenkampfabzeichen in Gold mit Brillianten is one of those wellmade reproductions available in England, isn't it? I use them too, to keep better-quality badges in until such time as an original case might be found. They are relatively cheap, make a nice display in a glass cabinet and protect the badge when it is in transit in the pocket of my anorak.

Paddy Ryan

R. J. Kimmel
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Post by R. J. Kimmel » 28 Apr 2002 13:43

Gentlemen... please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe in one of the postings above the qualification times presented for the three grades of Bandenkampf Abzeichen is incorrect.

In a magazine, published by Mr. Stump several years back, he states these times for all members of the armed forces, with the exception of those in the Luftwaffe, to be as folows for those who pride themselves on accuracy:

Bronze - 20 days
Silver - 50 "
Gold - 100 " Not 150 as was stated (not by Mr. Stump)

Luftwaffe: 30 - 75 & 150 respectively

As for the diamond version/variant no criteria was stated and the 5 additional months stated is merely a guesstimate... and not to be taken as fact

/RK

RF HONTS
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ANOTHER KIMMEL

Post by RF HONTS » 28 Apr 2002 17:41

My friend Chris Ailsby has sent these scans to me. Thought you might like to view.

Image
Image
Image
Image

I see we have another Richard K, on board.......welcome Paddy.

Roger

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 28 Apr 2002 17:46

Roger,

Very nice photos, thanks to Chris Ailsby and you for sharing them.

/Marcus

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Macmedal
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Post by Macmedal » 28 Apr 2002 21:20

Having just purchased what I now know to be an original second type Anti Partisan Badge and spent the last few months researching the subject to death (and pestering many patient people). I have to go with Paddy and Mr Stump I am not happy with Richards Bronze or silver badges. I have to say that all the facts as Mr Stump and other noteable researchers have said are that the Gold with diamonds was never produced but was possibly thought about. None were certainly ever issued. You just have to remember that the first Gold badges were not issued until the last few months of the war. So Gold with diamonds I really dont think so.

But just my humble opinion anyhow.

Paddy Keating
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Post by Paddy Keating » 29 Apr 2002 00:29

MacMedal:

Be careful what you say about badges on this forum because you're likely to receive e-mails with very suspicious-looking attachments that set every alarm system in your computer ringing.

Mr Ailsby's late-war Bandenkampfabzeichen document is interesting but it is always good to have a solid provenance in the case of late-war field-produced award documents such as these. I was caught out once upon a time by such a document, typed on old paper on an original wartime typewriter with the SS runic key. There are a few in in the hands of certain collectors and at least one noted British dealer.

It's a simple enough matter to rip the flyleaf out of some old book and whip up a field-made award document. Of course, the unit stamp has to be right but the majority of collectors are not sufficiently advanced when it comes to serious research and study to be able to check German military and paramilitary unit stamps. I remember seeing an award document for the Luftwaffe Close Combat Clasp, dated May 9 1945 and marked with a unit stamp bearing the Feldpost number of an Luftwaffe field catering company. Ah well...at least they got the arm-of-service right!

I also remember seeing a book about German Fallschirmjäger in which a Luftwaffe Ground Combat Badge for 25 Engagements was shown together with an award document. One could actually see that the original recipient's details had been blanked out, probably with typing correction fluid, and another man's details added, along with alterations to make it a '25 Engagement' document.

What made it even funnier was that the document was featured in another reference book - the 1st edition of Forman's guide - but in its original form as an ordinary Erdkampfabzeichen document to a Hermann Göring reconaissance unit NCO. While the recipient's details had changed when the document was converted into a 25 Engagement document, the awarding officer's name and rank and the Hermann Göring unit stamp remained unchanged, although the 25 badge recipient was in a completely different unit! If one were to believe that the 25 Ground Combat Badge document were original, one would have to believe that Captain So-and-So, Adjutant of the HG Division in November 1943, had been transferred to a lowly flak unit by 1945, still a captain and adjutant, and that he had taken his HG Division stamp with him for, one might presume, sentimental reasons. And that he had managed to sign his name in exactly the same way and precisely the same position as a year and a half previously.

Ah well! If you can't take a joke...

Speaking of which: Mr Honts, you ought not to be sending people strange e-mails with strange attachments - trojan horses, worms, viruses? - just because they do not share your opinions. If you post medals and badges on a public forum, one assumes that you expect people to comment upon them. I commented...and you clearly did not like what I had to say. But I do not understand why you are upset. After all, I am just, in your view, another Richard Kimmel, which is clearly a grave and serious insult in your lexicon of abuse, if the endless bickering in this forum between you and that other famous author is any indication.

And there are quite a few famous authors here, aren't there?

Ah well now! I think I shall bow out of here. The sport is found wanting, somewhat akin to shooting a tethered goat with a Charlie G. Those of you with a similar background to mine will know what a Charlie G is.

Good night...and may your God go with youse...

I'll drop back some other time.

Paddy Ryan

Homer martin
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Award documents

Post by Homer martin » 29 Apr 2002 01:21

When reseaching documents of late war awards one has to be very careful, there where many fakes made in the 60's for awards of doubtful origin. It is best to double check any of these awards and documents with any records on the soldier in question in Germany. These records may not be a complete record of the soldier in question, but could eliminate some if not most of the fakes and doctored books.
Also check for any records of the soldier in the divison hq section as there maybe a record of the higher award on record.

Homer

WCSTUMP
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PADDY RYAN MAN

Post by WCSTUMP » 29 Apr 2002 01:40

"Speaking of which: Mr Honts, you ought not to be sending people strange e-mails with strange attachments - trojan horses, worms, viruses? - just because they do not share your opinions. If you post medals and badges on a public forum, one assumes that you expect people to comment upon them. I commented...and you clearly did not like what I had to say. But I do not understand why you are upset. After all, I am just, in your view, another Richard Kimmel, which is clearly a grave and serious insult in your lexicon of abuse, if the endless bickering in this forum between you and that other famous author is any indication."

Please don't leave until you tell the old Hillbilly want a "Charlie G" is. Also, before you bow out, what exactly did Roger Honts send you? Are you sure Roger Honts sent viruses, worms and Trojan horses to you? I have received these from the notorious hacker of cyber space but could never pin point who it was. If Roger did that he needs to be called before the bar of justice. That is serious charges so don't fade away before you tell all the facts. I hope they are not like the baseless opinions, speculation and theories made by the more famous funny man here on the forum. Please feel free to email me privately, but don't up and leave until Mr. Honts has a chance to confront the serious charges you made against him.

RF HONTS
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Prosper Kimmel

Post by RF HONTS » 29 Apr 2002 06:03

Paddy,

I can take any kind of criticism, as long as it is constructive, and FACTUAL.

AND, I’ve never sent you ONE email. How could I have sent you an email, when I don’t know your address? You didn’t list it….liar liar pants on Kimmel.

Roger

RF HONTS
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posting deleted

Post by RF HONTS » 29 Apr 2002 19:32

Prosper,

What does your posting (which I deleted) have to do with the Anti-Partisan badge?

If you are here to cause trouble, trust me, you have meet your match with me.

Roger

R. J. Kimmel
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Post by R. J. Kimmel » 29 Apr 2002 19:36

Another posting edited that had nothing to do with the Anti-Partisan badge

Roger

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