EK I Copy????

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iron_cross67
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EK I Copy????

Post by iron_cross67 » 30 Dec 2011 00:57

Hello, I have found this EK I for sale but it looks a bit strange to me :? is this a go or no go?
Please have a look and thanks for looking Mick :)
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Thanks.

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John G.
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by John G. » 30 Dec 2011 03:33

Personally, I can't tell from just these photos....too dark and I'd need to see "all" the details front, back, & side....
sorry...
John G.

frans
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by frans » 30 Dec 2011 08:54

Need to see better shot of the catch and is that a mm under the pin ?
reg. frans

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John Jury
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by John Jury » 30 Dec 2011 11:42

This is a Rudolf Souval EKI,if you look at the beading of the corners of the frame it resembles a 'birds foot' \|/ its make up looks war time,but because this Austrian firm continued to produce medals and badges right up to the late seventies some collectors don't like them.The badges use a distinct clip hook which was not used in the Third Reich
Souval copy 003.jpg
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iron_cross67
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by iron_cross67 » 30 Dec 2011 13:19

Thanks for your help :D Yes the hook is strange looking to me, Sorry i can't give you all better photos as this is not my cross. I have been offered it for sale plus the box @ £225.00 uk Pounds! I will give this one a miss thanks Mick :)
Thanks.

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John Jury
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by John Jury » 30 Dec 2011 15:41

Hi Mike.
I think the cross is ok,I have a cased Souval just like it,just be aware not every body likes them,I myself like 'Deumers'( L/11 or '3')
Deumer EKI 005.jpg
.If you are going to collect EK I the best book on the subject is The Iron Cross 1. Class,by Dietrich Maerz & George Stimpson.In the UK it retails between £110-£125,at the moment the Naval and Military press have it 'on sale' for £88+pp,believe me this will save you money in the long run as it shows in detail all known EKI makers and the clasps
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iron_cross67
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by iron_cross67 » 30 Dec 2011 21:53

Thanks John for the help on the EK I i have the book (the iron cross of 1939) Gordon williamson (waf) but this cross is not in it or the detlev nieman no3 book just some of the crosses are in it not all.
P.S. I like your boxed cross 8-) i only have an EK II maker marked (3) in EF grade and a spange L/11 also in EF grade. I'm on the (Waf) also with the same name as here john. :) I have looked at this book and i will get it some time. Mick
Thanks.

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rlimike
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by rlimike » 30 Dec 2011 22:27

John Jury wrote:This is a Rudolf Souval EK I,if you look at the beading of the corners of the frame it resembles a 'birds foot' \|/ its make up looks war time,but because this Austrian firm continued to produce medals and badges right up to the late seventies some collectors don't like them.The badges use a distinct clip hook which was not used in the Third Reich
Souval copy 003.jpg
John, you are saying that THIS cross is post war manufactured ? If so why ? If it had the Souval C-catch I would say you are correct,but it does not.I do not collect these ,I was just wondering how to tell the difference between a wartime Souval & a post war Souval iron cross?

thanks,
Mike

Laurence Strong
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by Laurence Strong » 30 Dec 2011 23:12

Post war Souval should have a dipping "3" on the Obverse....hard to tell from the piccie

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rlimike
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by rlimike » 31 Dec 2011 00:05

Laurence, thanks for the info. I also found an article about these Souval crosses over at WAF and one on the Floch fakes as well, both are very well written & have great info. here are links to both articles.Laurence I know you are a member at WAF I posted the links for others who may not know about WAF.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... p?t=143349
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... p?t=348546

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John Jury
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by John Jury » 31 Dec 2011 10:53

rlimike wrote:
John Jury wrote:This is a Rudolf Souval EK I,if you look at the beading of the corners of the frame it resembles a 'birds foot' \|/ its make up looks war time,but because this Austrian firm continued to produce medals and badges right up to the late seventies some collectors don't like them.The badges use a distinct clip hook which was not used in the Third Reich
Souval copy 003.jpg
John, you are saying that THIS cross is post war manufactured ? If so why ? If it had the Souval C-catch I would say you are correct,but it does not.I do not collect these ,I was just wondering how to tell the difference between a wartime Souval & a post war Souval iron cross?

thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike.
I do not think it is post war,but as I said some collectors do not like them,in the EK book the dipping '3' is featured on war time pieces,its the Knights cross that Souval made post war has the dipping '3' and I believe they never made RK's during the war.I have seen the articles on WAF and its a real mine field regarding Souval,in the early seventies when I started collecting,the very mention of Souval put people off now even Souval fakes have become collectable.

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rlimike
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by rlimike » 31 Dec 2011 18:24

John, Mr.Floch & Mr. Souval make cross collecting interesting!

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John Jury
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by John Jury » 31 Dec 2011 20:35

rlimike wrote:John, Mr.Floch & Mr. Souval make cross collecting interesting!
:lol: Hi mike,thats a nice way of putting it,I have not come accross a 'Floch' yet,about four months ago I saw a Souval cross stamped L/11 on the pin,I passed on that.Although I have been collecting a very long time,since joining WAF I am learning from the beginning all over again,great fun! :lol:

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rlimike
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by rlimike » 01 Jan 2012 00:04

I forgot to mention Mr.Carsten Staegemeier (the african hero) ... another maker of repros. :wink:

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William Kramer
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Re: EK I Copy????

Post by William Kramer » 04 Jan 2012 18:17

Mick,

The cross you posted is a 100% textbook Souval produced cross. There is debate on when this style of reverse setup was introduced by Souval, but I personally have always considered them to be period as there are several hinge/catch setups that are used with this frame. On a side note, through research it has been determined that Souval supplied other makers with his frames, i.e. Friedrich Orth used Souval frames with their style of reverse hardware. The hardware present on your piece is characteristic of the actual Souval firm and like I said, I believe these to be pre May 1945 production.

I have a Veteran acquired Souval EK_1 but with obviously different reverse hardware (most likely a Friedrich Orth cross)

You will also see this has the "dipping 3" in the obverse date of 1939.

William Kramer
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