What Dad Brought Back
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R. J. Kimmel
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What Dad Brought Back
KILROY [retired] WAS HERE
Last edited by R. J. Kimmel on 03 Apr 2002, 23:31, edited 2 times in total.
I disagree
Richard,
Opinions are like noses...everyone is entitled to "wear" their own opinion. I would like to verse mine on your statement.
First of all, almost 99% of all badge manufactures were bombed, their dies lost, their factor lost, and most of all, their workers were not churning out badges at the end of the war, as that was the last thing on their work list. So 99% of all the "vet" pickups are legitimate war period manufactured items.
HOWEVER Rudolf Souval (R.S.) was still maked badges clear up to the 90's. HOWEVER, they marked their badges differently, and to the trained eye, you can spot one a mile away.
In my opinion there are just two types of badges.....original, and FAKE. Plain and simple. You cannot classify three styles of badges.
So in MY OPINION, most of the vet pickups are very much original war time pieces.
Roger
Opinions are like noses...everyone is entitled to "wear" their own opinion. I would like to verse mine on your statement.
First of all, almost 99% of all badge manufactures were bombed, their dies lost, their factor lost, and most of all, their workers were not churning out badges at the end of the war, as that was the last thing on their work list. So 99% of all the "vet" pickups are legitimate war period manufactured items.
HOWEVER Rudolf Souval (R.S.) was still maked badges clear up to the 90's. HOWEVER, they marked their badges differently, and to the trained eye, you can spot one a mile away.
In my opinion there are just two types of badges.....original, and FAKE. Plain and simple. You cannot classify three styles of badges.
So in MY OPINION, most of the vet pickups are very much original war time pieces.
Roger
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R. J. Kimmel
- Banned
- Posts: 531
- Joined: 13 Mar 2002, 20:49
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KILROY [retired] WAS HERE
Last edited by R. J. Kimmel on 03 Apr 2002, 23:32, edited 2 times in total.
answer
Richard,
To answer your question, as I have stated, there wasn't any manufacturing badges at this time, MAINLY Souval, and they be detected by any beginner.
Here's a question for you, name me another producer of badges between 1945 and 1950?
Roger
To answer your question, as I have stated, there wasn't any manufacturing badges at this time, MAINLY Souval, and they be detected by any beginner.
Here's a question for you, name me another producer of badges between 1945 and 1950?
Roger
BACK TO THE QUESTIONS
As far as firms producing Third Reich medals after the war only TWO firms are documented to have done this. they were Rudolf Souval, Vienna, Austria, starting in 1946, and the firm of Godet, in Berlin, Germany, starting in the 50's. Other firms that were not burned and bombed out did assemble from existing stocks badges and did sell them to the occupying troops. Some original war time dies fell into the hands of fake mongers and they produced the first re-strikes. The dies of F. W. Assmann & Sohn and C. E. Junkers were used for years to produce these restrikes, but the quality of the hand finishing was very poor and not of the same quality as was produced by the original firms using the same dies. Some dies were found and crude copies were made from them by pouring lead or other lead based material into them. Overall, ALL post war restrikes and copies are very detectable, despite what anyone may say to the contrary. That is their opinion and this is my humble opinion.
ASK THE ESTEEMED RICHARD J. KIMMEL
ASK THE ESTEEMED RICHARD J. KIMMEL.
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R. J. Kimmel
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Re: answer
KILROY [retired] WAS HERE
Last edited by R. J. Kimmel on 03 Apr 2002, 23:33, edited 4 times in total.
POST WAR GODET
Roger:
Make sure you take note of the post war producer GODET, Dr. Klietmann and wife's operation. If you will look you will find that Souval, Godet and Dr. Klietmann had a very close business relationship. However, it was the English that set the standard for post war restrikes and reproductions. All these fakers build their operations long after "daddy" brought back his war booty from his combat days of the war and occupation tours in post-war Germany.
Make sure you take note of the post war producer GODET, Dr. Klietmann and wife's operation. If you will look you will find that Souval, Godet and Dr. Klietmann had a very close business relationship. However, it was the English that set the standard for post war restrikes and reproductions. All these fakers build their operations long after "daddy" brought back his war booty from his combat days of the war and occupation tours in post-war Germany.
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R. J. Kimmel
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KILROY [retired] WAS HERE
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Last edited by R. J. Kimmel on 03 Apr 2002, 23:34, edited 3 times in total.
FOR DON ON MATERIALS
Materials used during the Third Reich era for the production of medals and especially badges changed from the early pre war period in the late 1930's from what was used in the late war period of 1944-45. the supplies of materials were plentiful in the early period and the government placed no restrictions on hat could be used. However in 1939 on the government regulated and restricted the types of material that was available for medal and badge production.
My friend Mike Tucker, author of COLLECTING MILITARY BADGES OF THE THIRD REICH, 1997 lists a breakdown of the materials used in producing badges and other decoration during the war years. I will list them as Mike did for easier understanding of the types of material.
In the early war years from 1939 to 1942 gold, silver, nickel silver aluminum, bronze, brass and tombak were used extensively. Gold, silver and aluminum were used in the plating process mainly for badges and for the production of higher quality orders and medals. Aluminum was first used as early as 1936 for the production of the Army Paratrooper Badge and Luftwaffe qualification badges. Plating of aluminum was easy and the basic parts were left without any applied finish as aluminum didn't form a patina and for the most part always looked bright and new. From around 1938 to 1942, bronze, brass and tombak were the materials of choice. Beginning in 1943, these metals became more important to the military and restriction were imposed on their use. This is where you see the use of britannia metal and kreigsmetal start to be used more and more. The britannia is a silvery white metal and was used in the infantry and Panzer assault badges as it didn't require a finish and polished easy. The kreigsmetal was a dark gray lead colored alloy and was used extensively in the late war as was zinc or so called "fine zinc" (1943-1945).
I will stop and give the readers a chance to ask questions.
My friend Mike Tucker, author of COLLECTING MILITARY BADGES OF THE THIRD REICH, 1997 lists a breakdown of the materials used in producing badges and other decoration during the war years. I will list them as Mike did for easier understanding of the types of material.
In the early war years from 1939 to 1942 gold, silver, nickel silver aluminum, bronze, brass and tombak were used extensively. Gold, silver and aluminum were used in the plating process mainly for badges and for the production of higher quality orders and medals. Aluminum was first used as early as 1936 for the production of the Army Paratrooper Badge and Luftwaffe qualification badges. Plating of aluminum was easy and the basic parts were left without any applied finish as aluminum didn't form a patina and for the most part always looked bright and new. From around 1938 to 1942, bronze, brass and tombak were the materials of choice. Beginning in 1943, these metals became more important to the military and restriction were imposed on their use. This is where you see the use of britannia metal and kreigsmetal start to be used more and more. The britannia is a silvery white metal and was used in the infantry and Panzer assault badges as it didn't require a finish and polished easy. The kreigsmetal was a dark gray lead colored alloy and was used extensively in the late war as was zinc or so called "fine zinc" (1943-1945).
I will stop and give the readers a chance to ask questions.
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R. J. Kimmel
- Banned
- Posts: 531
- Joined: 13 Mar 2002, 20:49
- Location: Good o'l USA
KILROY [retired] WAS HERE
Last edited by R. J. Kimmel on 03 Apr 2002, 23:35, edited 2 times in total.