HI THERE.
can anyone tell me how to tell a fake knights cross as i am after one
fake or not but i don,t want to be taken in many thx in advance
theraven
knights cross
BE VERY CAREFUL!!
Hello,
PLEASE be very careful when purchasing a KC, and I don't want to say that lightly. They are being made, and have been made to perfection. There are also war time pieces that are discarded as fakes, that are actually original. This is an entire field all in itself.
If you would like to post scans of your KC, I will try to help out.
Roger
PLEASE be very careful when purchasing a KC, and I don't want to say that lightly. They are being made, and have been made to perfection. There are also war time pieces that are discarded as fakes, that are actually original. This is an entire field all in itself.
If you would like to post scans of your KC, I will try to help out.
Roger
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MICHAELM82
- Member
- Posts: 287
- Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 05:53
- Location: California
Hi,
There are many books on how to determine the fakes, including Detecting the Fakes by Robin Lumsden.
Hope this may help?
Also try http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com
There are many books on how to determine the fakes, including Detecting the Fakes by Robin Lumsden.
Hope this may help?
Also try http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com
THE KNIGHT'S CROSS OF THE IRON CROSS
I would highly suggest that you obtain a good reference library on the subject before you dip into your wallet and find out that you threw away hard earned cash.
Three really good books are on the market dealing with the Iron Crosses. Gordon Williamson, a god friend from Scotland, will have a new book out on the subject any time now. Roger Bender will be publishing it. The three books I would recommend is THE IRON TIMES, by Steve Previteria, THE IRON CROSS A HISTORY 1813-1945, by Gordon Williamson, and DAS EISERNE KREUZ by Harald Geissler.
A number of good dealers can be trusted to sell you original items with no worry of being swindled out of your money.
Three really good books are on the market dealing with the Iron Crosses. Gordon Williamson, a god friend from Scotland, will have a new book out on the subject any time now. Roger Bender will be publishing it. The three books I would recommend is THE IRON TIMES, by Steve Previteria, THE IRON CROSS A HISTORY 1813-1945, by Gordon Williamson, and DAS EISERNE KREUZ by Harald Geissler.
A number of good dealers can be trusted to sell you original items with no worry of being swindled out of your money.
Ludwig
Ludwig,
It is uncertain how many different firms produced the Knight’s cross. Only seven firms are known to have manufactured the Knight's Cross on an official contract basis, for supply to the Orders Chancellery or Ordenskanzlei. At one point in time, a number of unknown firms manufactured Knights Crosses for sale to entitled persons through retail outlets. In 1941 the order had deteriorated in quality, and the sale of Knights Crosses and other high-ranking orders through retail stores were ceased. These retail pieces were all handed over to the Ordenskanzlei and added to their official stocks. The small numbers of Knights Crosses, which do not match known “official” types, are examples of these commercially produced pieces, which make the originality of a Knight Cross most difficult.
Roger
It is uncertain how many different firms produced the Knight’s cross. Only seven firms are known to have manufactured the Knight's Cross on an official contract basis, for supply to the Orders Chancellery or Ordenskanzlei. At one point in time, a number of unknown firms manufactured Knights Crosses for sale to entitled persons through retail outlets. In 1941 the order had deteriorated in quality, and the sale of Knights Crosses and other high-ranking orders through retail stores were ceased. These retail pieces were all handed over to the Ordenskanzlei and added to their official stocks. The small numbers of Knights Crosses, which do not match known “official” types, are examples of these commercially produced pieces, which make the originality of a Knight Cross most difficult.
Roger
KCs
Dear Roger,
Many thanks for your quick answer. At first I thought you meant a specific type of KC.
Like the KC with 3/4 loop. Some years ago many collectors thought they were fakes, but in fact not so few of them were awarded 1939-1941.
Also Steinhauer&Lueck crosses with traces after flaws can be OK, which many "experts" still deny.
Many thanks for your quick answer. At first I thought you meant a specific type of KC.
Like the KC with 3/4 loop. Some years ago many collectors thought they were fakes, but in fact not so few of them were awarded 1939-1941.
Also Steinhauer&Lueck crosses with traces after flaws can be OK, which many "experts" still deny.
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Homer martin
- Member
- Posts: 262
- Joined: 13 Mar 2002, 13:08
- Location: USA
Knights Cross
Could you give us some information about the Knights Cross there where made after the war and sold to GIs for $15 that where produced by the same companies that made them during the war?
Homer
Ps They used the same material and dies and markings to manufacture to make the Knight Cross, there are 1000s of good cross out there, but you can never tell if its a post war or war copy for my understanding, unless you get one for a holder of the Knights Cross.
You also may want to talk some on the copy most holders had made to wear in the field, the orginal was left at home in some cases.
Homer
Ps They used the same material and dies and markings to manufacture to make the Knight Cross, there are 1000s of good cross out there, but you can never tell if its a post war or war copy for my understanding, unless you get one for a holder of the Knights Cross.
You also may want to talk some on the copy most holders had made to wear in the field, the orginal was left at home in some cases.
Ludwig
Ludwig,
Very correct! I just love the "experts/authors" when they speak about the "#" pattern in the corners. They don't use common sense and think there could have possibly been more than one die. Who knows one company could have used several dies....the point being, no one will ever know.
Roger
Very correct! I just love the "experts/authors" when they speak about the "#" pattern in the corners. They don't use common sense and think there could have possibly been more than one die. Who knows one company could have used several dies....the point being, no one will ever know.
Roger
OPINIONS ROGER, OPINIOINS?
Roger, opinions and speculation are like a sifter. They don't hold water. C. E. Junker and other firms that produced the Knights cross had different dies, but according to the "experts", or should I say more experienced specialists in the study of the Knights Cross than myself, say that the die design was basically the same for all dies used IF more than one die was employed. It is a unique characteristic of each firm. So the # on the inner rim of the silver borders are unique to certain manufacturers. And again, I simply say, one must "Believe it or not."
Speculation?
Bill,
Are you trying to say it was a "speculation" that only one die was used? Or two? Or three? Or four?
I think I understand what you are trying to say is "no one really knows"...correct?
Roger
Are you trying to say it was a "speculation" that only one die was used? Or two? Or three? Or four?
I think I understand what you are trying to say is "no one really knows"...correct?
Roger
WHAT I SAID WAS JUST WHAT I SAID
I said, "That the die design was basically the same for all dies used IF more than one die was employed. It is a unique characteristic of each firm. So the # on the inner rim of the silver borders are unique to certain manufacturers."
If you use logic, which sometime you don't, then technically we only know for a fact that we were born and we will die. In all other cases, we have to go on documented facts, a preponderance of evidential facts, or rely on "guesstimates", speculation or fairy tales. For me I prefer to accept the documented facts and evidence and pitch out the rest with the dirty laundry and the dirty dish water.
If you use logic, which sometime you don't, then technically we only know for a fact that we were born and we will die. In all other cases, we have to go on documented facts, a preponderance of evidential facts, or rely on "guesstimates", speculation or fairy tales. For me I prefer to accept the documented facts and evidence and pitch out the rest with the dirty laundry and the dirty dish water.
KITTY CAME BACK
The only female Feline Knights Cross holder, Frau Smokie. I think the "Iron Cross Daddy" abducted her, but she escaped.
