please helpme identify if is a fake or real Party member pin

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Douglas 5
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Post by Douglas 5 » 16 Jul 2006 20:26

He has a few comparisons with orig and fake 129's .
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Douglas 5
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Post by Douglas 5 » 16 Jul 2006 20:31

More fake 129's he has .
Other dealers out there selling fake 129 still and a new batch of improved repro 128 are on the market now .
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Douglas 5
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Post by Douglas 5 » 16 Jul 2006 20:34

Consitancy in marking does not exist at all :
Below are only SOME original pins with various marking styles .
More variations exist .
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KCJ
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Post by KCJ » 16 Jul 2006 21:21

Sorry Douglas, but all M1/129 badges are fakes. The M1/129 RZM license was issued, but does not appear to have ever been used. M1/129 was issued late - probably 1938 - so far too late for any of these 1932-33 badges. No one has ever produced an unquestionably genuine M1/129 badge. The ones you show as originals above have been artificially aged and are available on most repro sites.

These "sympathizer badges" have been the subject of long discussions elsewhere. They were not official NSDAP badges, and so it was doubtful they were ever RZM marked. The only ones that are unquestionably real are either blank on the reverse or marked only "GES. GESCH."

These badges ("Heil Hitler, Ludendorff.." etc, Adolf Hitler 1933, etc) were produced with a oval pin plate. The fakers have recently been pumping them out with a more convincing round pin plate.

As for the cross mark on the "Z" in the RZM mark ("Schutzzeichen") it is a myth that they should always have a cross to be real. They came in four variations - with and without the cross mark, with and without the 2nd outer circle. This idea that RZM logos without the cross to the "Z" are fake came from Robin Lumsden in his book "Detecting the Fakes". Robin and I have discussed this, and he has agreed in another forum that this is wrong, and the a plain Z in the mark is genuine.

Hope all this helps.

Stephen

MY RZM Handbook: http://www.goldenpheasant.biz/
My Gold Party Badge Website: http://www.geocities.com/goldpartypin/

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jray2986
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please helpme identify if is a fake or real Party member pin

Post by jray2986 » 16 Jul 2006 23:41

I agree with you Stephen ,
"No one has ever produced an unquestionably genuine M1/129 badge. The ones you show as originals above have been artificially aged"
Talk about artificially aged; check this one I picked up from a collector in Europe. A RZM 128 fake that has been artificially aged. It’s slightly larger and heavier than an authentic piece. I have posted an original 128 for comparison
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jray2986
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128 Fake

Post by jray2986 » 16 Jul 2006 23:43

side view
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jray2986
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Post by jray2986 » 16 Jul 2006 23:44

back
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KCJ
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Post by KCJ » 17 Jul 2006 01:29

Here's another brand new M1/129. It is beautifuly made, but fake.
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KCJ
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Post by KCJ » 17 Jul 2006 01:32

Here is one likely made by the same repro company, but with a better back and different number. It is an M1/128, except the maker name on the pin plate does not match the company with that license - nice try. The company named had RZM license M9/128.

Note the "puffiness" of the red enamel around the letters on the left.

Cheers,

Stephen
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KCJ
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Post by KCJ » 17 Jul 2006 01:36

Finally, here's a modern fake "NUN ERST RECHT" badge. It has the same reverse as the big fantasy "Civil SS" membership pins with M1/4 and "GES. GESCH." Aged, these are sold (and bought) as originals all the time.

The three above photos all came from the same repro-selling website.

Stephen

MY RZM Handbook: http://www.goldenpheasant.biz/
My Gold Party Badge Website: http://www.geocities.com/goldpartypin/
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jray2986
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Fake Party pin

Post by jray2986 » 17 Jul 2006 02:03

Stephen
They are getting better at making these fakes, the collector told me it came from a warehouse in Austria,, I saw another one of these for sale at a reputable website..LOOK OUT!!! :(

stu hj
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Post by stu hj » 17 Jul 2006 20:44

to be honest its enough to put you off collecting theres so many fakes out there now and they are getting better and better is it going to come to a time where people just dont know the difference

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 18 Jul 2006 05:17

Every 'show" i set up at, some one will bring in their "vet bringback" or "dads' medals and pins, and these stand out like a deer caught in a cars headlights... I can spot these fakes from 20 feet away... I feel sorry for these guys... collecting these pins, paying $30.00 and up, for a $6.00 retail pin.... I have "antiqued" these.( just to see how they look).. and allthough they looked aged... the construction and the metal being used to manufacter these are the biggest give away..

Oh well, what can you do????

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 18 Jul 2006 05:22

And another thing.... how many of us are getting sick and tired of the.....'''Just found in a ware house ''B.S. statement
these con jerk offs give to "new bee" collectors,or anyone that shound know better????

Man!!! Europe must be just bursting at the seams with undiscovered warehouses..outhouses :lol: ...storerooms,etc...

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Douglas 5
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Oh no !

Post by Douglas 5 » 18 Jul 2006 05:47

Hi Stephen and Jrag :

Just got in ... and lost for words , .....
After checking with lists and coments about dealers and conartists to stay clear of or - to expect not every thing to be authentic , Enamels of War - was never listed , and was recommended twice for good knowledge on enamel pins !

Acuracy and correct information is important to me and at no time was any of his samples posted to deceive any one .
With the advanced pin collectors here it did not take long to catch this .
I ask myself why would he prepare and set these comparisons up this way , or has he some other explanation ?

As mentioned I have not been working on Party Pins that long and it a very vast area of collecting . As most small dealers and antique shops have so many fakes now and 129's, and so that is what I started working on first .

Yes the basic facts I am aware of and rightfully you ask, .... why I did not catch the 1933 RZM marked pin ?
Not an excuse, ... but a 'explanation' that was given to me and sounded possible , that may show up more now , .......
'A period authorized re-issue of these old pins for members to purchase and were RZM marked .'
Even though it is a different medal , L59 did make some WW1 EK's on order so re-issued medals were done , and so did not sound wrong . I never bought the pin as the front did not look right .

A tricky era to collect and so many pitfalls ! You fall and you get up again .

Sounds like that the ware-house in Austria may be the same place a bunch of fake dagger cross guards are comming from too .
There is a recent flurry of fake early Pins of all inscriptions now on the market that are marked RZM M1/129, 4 or 72 !

Regards , Douglas

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