Identifying distribution of Sd. Kfz. 233?

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ELally
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Identifying distribution of Sd. Kfz. 233?

Postby ELally » 24 Apr 2007 01:43

Hey folks!

From what I've read, Sd. Kfz. 233 were attached to the battalion commands of PzAufklAbt, six per battalion. The problem, though, is that there were only about 119 produced -- not quite enough to equip twenty divisions' armored recon units, and considering that there were more than twenty panzer and panzergrenadiere divisions...

So -- the question, then, is this: what units received 233s? While Panzer distribution is much-discussed -- and even distribution of such popular recon vehicles as Luchs and Puma, supporting weapons such as the 233 aren't as easy to find data on.

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David W
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Postby David W » 24 Apr 2007 07:30

Good question ELally. I too await the answer with interest.

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bryson109
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Postby bryson109 » 24 Apr 2007 21:54

The only info I could find is in Jentz's Panzer Tracts No.13.
First they saw action in Tunisia, North Africa. 12 with Aufkl.Kp."T" and 6 with Pz.Sp.Kp.220. Most of the rest were sent to the Eastern Front.

-Bryson

ELally
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Postby ELally » 25 Apr 2007 06:07

No information on which Abteilungs received them? Even a quick list of formations would be handy. :/

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Postby ELally » 25 Apr 2007 09:24

I'm particularly interested in any info relating to PzAufklAbt 9, as an aside. ;)

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Postby Martin Block » 26 Apr 2007 13:33

Interesting challenge which 'forced' me to compile the following

(almost) complete allocation list for Sd.Kfz. 233

Sources used:
- Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. allocation list for Pz.Späh-Wagen May 1943 to April 1945*
- monthly status reports of major armored units to Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. June/July 1943 to Feb./March 1945
- Files of OKH/GenStdH/Org.Abt. and Chef H Rüst u BdE covering fromation, organisation, refit etc. of Pz.Truppen
- T. Jentz, Panzer Tracts 13
[*Note: These allocation files start only in May 1943 and for the most part distinguish only between "le.Pz.Späh-Wg." and "s.Pz.Späh-Wg.". So they are of limited help only. Remarks about exact variants of vehicles are rare, but when found exact shpment dates are shown below.]

1. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 1) = 6 shipped 2. Jun. 1943

2. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 2) = 6 arrived sometime before May 1943

3. Pz.Div.: no (T)eil(E)inheit. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

4. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 4) = 6 shipped 9. Sep. 1943

5. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

6. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 6) = 6 arrived sometime before May 1943

7. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 7) = 6 arrived sometime before May 1943

8. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

9. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 9) = 6 arrived sometime before May 1943

10. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found

11. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised in 1942/43, May 1944 1 Sd.Kfz. 233 taken over from 273. Res.Pz.Div. and used with Stabskp./Pz.A.A. 11

12. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

13. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 13) reported presence of 3 Sd.Kfz. 233 for the first time in status report 1.6.1944 = 3, no matching shipment found. 'Hidden' under s.Pz.Sp.Wg. in earlier reports or taken over from other unit?

14. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 14) = 6 shipped 21. Aug. 1943

15. Pz.Div.: T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) with 6 Sd.Kfz. 233 authorised for 1./Pz.A.A. 33 on 16.6.1942. Could not establish if vehicles were actually delivered.

16. Pz.Div. (2./Pz.A.A. 16) = 6 arrived before May 1943

17. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

18. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

19. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

20. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

21. Pz.Div. (Afrika): : T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) with 6 Sd.Kfz. 233 authorised for 1./Pz.A.A. 3 on 16.6.1942. Could not establish if vehicles were actually delivered.

21. Pz.Div. (Ob. West) (2./Pz.A.A. 21) = 6 shipped on 17. Aug. 1943 (originally to Pz.A.Lehr-Abt. which was renamed to Pz.A.A. 21 in Sep. 1943)

22. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found

23. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 23) = 6 possibly shipped on 25. Okt. 1943 (date likely for several reasons but yet unconfirmed)

24. Pz.Div.: T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised on 7.4.1943 but no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

25. Pz.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 25) = 6 shipped on 6. Sep. 1943

26. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

27. Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found

116. Pz.Div.: no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports (1 could have come from 179. Res.Pz.Div. in May 1944 but it doesn't show up in status reports)

155. Res.Pz.Div.: no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports

179. Res.Pz.Div. (1./Res.Pz.A.A. 1) = 1 arrived sometime before Dec. 1943, unknown if incorporated into Pz.A.A. 116 in May 1944

233. Res.Pz.Div.: no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports

273. Res.Pz.Div. (1./Res.Pz.A.A. 7) = 1 arrived sometime before Dec. 1943, May 1944 incorporated into Stabskp./Pz.A.A. 11 (11. Pz.Div.)

Pz.Lehr-Div.: no Sd.Kfz. 233 authorised nor delivered or reported

Fsch.Pz.Div. HG Pz.A.A. HG: although a T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) was authorised in 1943, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

3. Pz.Gren.Div. (1./Pz.A.A. 103) = 6 shipped on 15.11. or 15.12.1943

10. Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

15. Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

16. Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

18. Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

20. Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

25. Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

29. Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

(60.) Pz.Gren.Div. FHH (1./Pz.A.A. FHH) = 6 shipped on 13. Sep. 1943

90. Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

Pz.Gren.Div. GD (1. or 2./Pz.A.A. GD) = 6 arrived sometime before May 1943

Pz.Verband 700 (Pz.Späh-Kp. 700): T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) with 6 Sd.Kfz. 233 authorised for Pz.Sp.Kp. 700 on 16.10.1942. Could not establish if vehicles were actually delivered.

90. Lei.Afrika-Div.: T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) with 6 Sd.Kfz. 233 authorised for 1./Pz.A.A. 580 on 3.10.1942. Could not establish if vehicles were actually delivered.

164. Lei.Afrika-Div.: 1./Pz.A.A. 220 = 6 arrived in 6 Africa on 27. Nov. 1942 (Kp. used to form Pz.A.A. 190 (Heerestruppe for Pz.A.O.K. 5) in March/April 1943)

Wüsten-Sonderverband 287: On 31.7.1942 OKH/Chef H Rüst u BdE ordered W.K. III to form a 'Personaleinheit' s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) for Pz.Späh-Kp. 287. 6 Sd.Kfz. 233 would be provided by Chef H Rüst u BdE/AHA/Ag K/In 6. On 9.4.1943 Pz.Späh-Kp. 287 was renamed to Pz.Späh-Kp. 468 for the LXVIII. A.K..
If the delivery to Pz.Späh-Kp. 287 actually took place I can't tell for sure because I have no strength reports of the unit itself available. But it could well be since as late as 30.12.1944 in an overview prepared by the Quartermaster General a single s.Pz.Sp.Wg. 7,5 cm is listed with Pz.Späh-Kp. 468 together with some Italian recce vehicles.

Aufkl.Kp. 'T' = 12 arrived in Africa on 16. Nov. 1942 (No further information about this unit available. Where did it belong to? Were these vehicles then possibly distributed among other units in Africa like 15., 21. Pz.Div. and/or 90. lei.Div.???)

Sturm-Div. Rhodos (1./Pz.A.A. Rhodos) = 6 (originally 1./Pz.A.A. 999 and intended for Afrika-Div. 999, shipped before May 1943)

1. SS-Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

2. SS-Pz.Div. (1./SS-Pz.A.A. 2) = at least 2 arrived sometime before May 1943

3. SS-Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

4. SS-Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

5. SS-Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

9. SS-Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

10. SS-Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports after summer 1943

11. SS-Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports

12. SS-Pz.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports

16. SS-Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports

17. SS-Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports

18. SS-Pz.Gren.Div.: no T.E. s.Pz.Späh-Zug (7,5 cm) authorised, no evidence for delivery or presence of Sd.Kfz. 233 found in available status reports


Ersatzheer = 1 shipped on 16. Sep. 1943


All told I counted 116 more or less confirmed allocations of Sd.Kfz. 233. That means at least 3 of the not included possible deliveries of (6) each to 15., 21. Pz.Div., 90. lei.Div., Pz.Späh-Kp. 287/468 and Pz.Verband 700 can't have happened since only 129 Sd.Kfz. 233 were build!
I think it is likely that the 2. SS-Pz.Div. also received not only 2 but a full platoon of 6 Sd.Kfz., but since I have no evidence I counted only the 2 I could establish for sure.
I also could not find out if there were more Sd.Kfz. 233 among the 10 s.Pz.Sp.Wg. shipped to the replacement army between May and Oct 1943 other than the 1 already listed above.

So I can't claim the above list to be complete and 100% accurate, but as a start not bad don't you think :lol: ?
Additions and corrections always welcome!

Martin Block
Last edited by Martin Block on 02 May 2007 20:01, edited 4 times in total.

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David W
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Postby David W » 26 Apr 2007 15:19

Great work Martin.

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Postby David W » 26 Apr 2007 15:43

I know this doesn't mean much, it's certainly not evidence, but Americam 1st Armoured Division claimed to have captured from 10th Panzer Division (& re-used) an S.d.K.f.z. 233 in early 1943. I've seen photos of it, so they certainly captured one allright, but from whom?

There ia also a much publicised photo of an S.d.K.f.z. 233 being manned by Ramcke Brigade personnel, again early 1943. So did they get any? Or are the Ramcke personnel part of Aufkl Kp 'T'?


edited for spelling & grammer
Last edited by David W on 26 Apr 2007 16:36, edited 1 time in total.

ELally
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Postby ELally » 26 Apr 2007 16:32

Wow! Impressive stuff. Thanks! That's immeasurably helpful. :D

Edit: By the way, can I relay this information to another forum I frequent? I'll cite you, the forum, and the references made, quite naturally, in addition to singing praise. ;)

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Postby Martin Block » 27 Apr 2007 07:27

ELally,

as long as you give credit where credit is due, just do as you like :wink:

MArtin Block

Bob_Mackenzie
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Postby Bob_Mackenzie » 02 May 2007 08:02

Dear Martin

Leo Neihorster's German WW2 organisational Series Vol 5/I pg 67 disagrees somewhat with the delivery data above.

On 4th July 43 he indicates the following panzer Divs have the 223: 2, 6, 7, 9, 14 & 24 plus the 3 PzGren Div. Of course this may be that deliveries from German didn't reach their intended destinations, and 14 vice 16 might be a typo. The differenence in the 3 PzG seems difficult to rationalise though

Leo's research is usually pretty good (and so is yours!) so I wonder if you'd care to comment on the differences?

Cheers

Bob

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Postby Bob_Mackenzie » 02 May 2007 08:04

On a further check the organisational diagrams at the start of the book show the 233 platoon with both 14 and 16

Cheers

Bob

Martin Block
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Sd.Kfz. 233

Postby Martin Block » 02 May 2007 13:01

14. Pz.Div.:
The s.Pz.Sp.Zug 7,5 cm for the 1./Pz.A.A. 14 had indeed already been authorized on 7.4.1943 but from my available files it took until August 1943 before the 6 Sd.Kfz. 233 were actually shipped! No shipments of any s.Pz.Sp.Wg. at all were recorded during May, June and July 1943. If any had been shipped already during April why didn't they appear until 1.10.1943?

24. Pz.Div.:
My fault, actually a s.Pz.Sp.Zug 7,5 cm for the 1./Pz.A.A. 24 had been authorized with the same order also on 7.4.1943 (original post corrected accordingly) and so does show up in the 'Soll-Gliederungen' from summer 1943 and in 1944. Nevertheless, looking at the available monthly status reports ('Ist-Gliederungen') of the division starting with 25.7.1943 NO Sd.Kfz. 233 were listed at any given time! The heaviest weapon listed remained the 2 cm Kwk and nothing else. Between May 1943 and Dec 1944 only 2 s.Pz.Sp.Wg. were shipped to the Division in June 1943 and all indications are they were 2 cm armed Sd.Kfz. 232. So at the time being I stick to my statment that the 24. Pz.Div. didn't get any 233!

3. Pz.Gren.Div.:
Yes, when the 3. Inf.Div.(mot.) was re-created in early 1943 after Stalingrad the 'Soll-Gliederung' actually already included a s.Pz.Späh-Zug 7,5 cm. But again available status reports for 1943/44 do NOT show the presence of any Sd.Kfz. 233 before 1.2.1944! So until teached otherwise by new documents I again stick to my earlier statement.

But doesn't Leo usually present the 'Soll-Gliederungen' and not the 'Ist-Gliederungen' in his WW2 Organisational Series? That would easily explain the differences.

Martin Block
Last edited by Martin Block on 02 May 2007 20:11, edited 3 times in total.

Bob_Mackenzie
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Postby Bob_Mackenzie » 02 May 2007 13:24

Thanks for the clarification Martin

Cheers

Bob

Lannes
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Pz-Spah-Kp 468

Postby Lannes » 02 May 2007 18:50

Folks,
Just add the above (formed from the Pz-Spah-Kp 287) to the list of formations authorised a heavy platoon with 6 Sdkfz 233s. No idea if they got them, though- in 1944 they are mentioned in conjunction with Italian ABs.
And no, Bob, I'm not following you from forum to forum :-) .
best regards
Aris Kosionidis


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