3:div at Summa , II Corp in the Karelian Isthmus in 1941 OOB

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3:div at Summa , II Corp in the Karelian Isthmus in 1941 OOB

Post by Varjager » 17 May 2007 07:46

I have 2 questions. It would be most helpfull if any one could try and help me with these questions. I dont read Finnish and most of the books i have aint that detailed.

- Which Finnish Companies from the 3rd Division defended the Summa village area on the February 11th 1940? Especially the sector between the 2nd and 10th Bunkers around Summa.

The OOB of the II Corp in the Karelian Isthmus in 1941.

I ahvent found to much info on either of these questions on the net.

Thanks in advance.

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Post by Mikko H. » 17 May 2007 12:23

- Which Finnish Companies from the 3rd Division defended the Summa village area on the February 11th 1940? Especially the sector between the 2nd and 10th Bunkers around Summa.


On 11 February 1940 village of Summa was defended by II/JR 7 (kapteeni Karl Söderholm), but I don't have more exact info.

The OOB of the II Corp in the Karelian Isthmus in 1941.


At the end of June 1941:

II Armeijakunta (kenraalimajuri Taavetti Laatikainen)
- 18. Divisioona (eversti Aaro Pajari)
- 15. Divisioona (eversti Niilo Hersalo)
- 2. Divisioona (eversti Aarne Blick)

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Post by Varjager » 17 May 2007 16:05

Thanks,

That helped alot. Do you know if there where any support units to the II Corp?

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Post by Mikko H. » 17 May 2007 18:23

Certainly there were, at least some heavy artillery units. I'll check my books (if one of the many more knowledgeable members don't beat me into it).

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Post by JTV » 17 May 2007 20:27

Mikko H. wrote:
- Which Finnish Companies from the 3rd Division defended the Summa village area on the February 11th 1940? Especially the sector between the 2nd and 10th Bunkers around Summa.


On 11 February 1940 village of Summa was defended by II/JR 7 (kapteeni Karl Söderholm), but I don't have more exact info.



According page 155 of book "Summa" by Hakala and Santavuori 11th of February Summa Village was defended by Jaeger Battalion 3. 2nd Battalion of Infantry Regiment 7 that you mentioned was in eastern side of the village. During the day 1st and 3rd Battalions of Infantry Regiment 7 were called back from rest and used as a reserve for sector of Summa Village - both of these battalions were in barrier line (tukilinja). If I got it right (page 137) Jaeger Battalion 3 was tranferred to Summa Village in night 6th - 7th of February.

11th of February the main problem for Finnish troops in this sector (as already quite a while) was the area around Sk 2 bunker. It was full of Soviets and attacks coming from there were pretty much constant. The particular bunker had been pretty much destroyed by hits super-heavy (10 - 12 inch) Soviet artillery received in 20th of January and 1st of February. 2nd of February the Soviets had captured what was left of the bunker and the terrain around it. Jaeger Battalion 3 succeeded repulsing these attacks with little help from artillery - it could fire only rarely and only small number of shells each time, but these found their targets in terrain around Sk 2. The main attack of the day from Sk 2 started with heavy artillery barrage at 08:40, as the ones already during the night it was repulsed, but it was the main reason for calling the 2 battalions of Infantry Regiment 7 to support line.

2nd Battalion of Infantry Regiment 7 had less incoming artillery fire, but infantry attacks supported by tanks continued in its sector pretty much non-stop from dawn to late evening. The attacks were repulsed and 9 Soviet tanks were knocked out in battles.

Jarkko

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Post by JTV » 17 May 2007 20:52

Mikko H. wrote:Certainly there were, at least some heavy artillery units. I'll check my books (if one of the many more knowledgeable members don't beat me into it).


The main artillery support units for sector of Summa Village were I/KTR 5 (1st Battalion of Field Artillery Regiment 5) and III/KTR 5 (3rd Battalion of Field Artillery Regiment 5), but according page 62 Suomen Kenttätykistön Historia 2 (History Of Field Artillery) by Paulaharju III/KTR 5 was transferred as support of Lähde sector around that time, so possibly only I/KTR 5 was supporting this particular sector? What I can found (Itsenäisen Suomen kenttätykit 1918 - 1995 / Field Guns of Independent Finland 1918 - 1995 by Paulaharju) these two battalions probably had the usual 76 K/02 field guns and 122 H/09 light howitzers. At least I/KTR 5 had likely two batteries of 76 K/02 (4 guns each) and one battery of 122 H/09. Heavy Artillery Battalions 1 and 2 were behind Summa sector and so inside range, but they probably had their hands full with fire requests coming from Lähde sector. Heavy Artillery Battalion 1 had 10 heavy field guns 107 K/10 and 107 K/13. Heavy Artillery Battalion 2 had 11 or 12 heavy howitzers 150 H/14j.

Jarkko

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Post by Varjager » 17 May 2007 21:15

Thanks alot for all this info. Do any one know the company numbers of the Jaeger Battalion 3?
Also do any one know the units of the Task Force Roininen that fought at the battle of Salla?

Thanks alot for the help so far.

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Post by Mikko H. » 19 May 2007 16:14

According page 155 of book "Summa" by Hakala and Santavuori 11th of February Summa Village was defended by Jaeger Battalion 3. 2nd Battalion of Infantry Regiment 7 that you mentioned was in eastern side of the village.


You are probably right. The map I consulted is in so large scale that it's easy to misinterpret.

Also do any one know the units of the Task Force Roininen that fought at the battle of Salla?


Osasto Roininen was named after its commander majuri Vilho Roininen, who at the start of the Winter War commanded Erillinen Pataljoona 17 (Er.P 17; Separate Battalion 17) in the direction of Salla. When Roininen's forces were reinforced by Er.P 25 on 6 December 1939, Roininen was made commander of newly founded Osasto Roininen (Os. Roininen; Detachment Roininen). On 12 December Os. Roininen was further reinforced by Er.P 26. At some point in December also Tiedusteluosasto 9 (TO 9; Recon Detachment 9) was subordinated to Os. Roininen. On 15 December one more battlion was given to Os. Roininen, IX/Kenttätäydennysprikaati (IX/KT-Pr.; IX Battalion of Field Replacement Brigade), so by that time Os. Roininen consisted of four battalions:

- Er.P 17 (kapteeni Olli Väänänen) since 6 Dec 1939
- Er.P 25 (kapteeni Ejwind Ahonius) since 6 Dec 1939
- Er.P 26 (kapteeni Juho Hänninen) since 12 Dec 1939
- IX/KT-Pr. (kapteeni Torsten Granberg) since 15 Dec 1939

Other reinforcements:
- an AT-platoon of two 37mm Bofors guns on 14 Dec 1939

From late December 1939 on Os. Roininen started to lose units:
- on 21 December 1939 Lapin Ryhmä (Lappland Group) HQ took Er.P 17 into its direct command; the battalion continued to fight in the same direction with Os. Roininen
- on 30 December 1939 Jalkaväkirykmentti 40 (JR 40; Infantry Regiment 40) (majuri Armas Perksalo) was given IX/KT-Pr. when it relieved Os. Roininen in Joutsijärvi; however, by that time Er.P 17 has been returned to Os. Roininen's command

In late February Swedish volunteers of Svenska Frivilligkåren (Swedish Volunteer Corps) began to relieve Finnish units from front line in Salla. Most Finnish units left for Bay of Viborg in south, where the Soviets had invaded the western shore of the frozen Bay. However, Os. Roininen remained in Salla.

From 18 December 1939 on Os. Roininen was given fire support by 6./Kenttätykistörykmentti 9 (6./KTR 9; 6th Battery of Field Artillery Regiment 9) with four 105mm Swedish mountain howitzers (luutnantti Into Heimo) [*]. In late January 1940 arrived I/KTR 22 (I Battalion of Field Artillery Regiment 22) (kapteeni Pehr Hinnerichsen) with two of its three batteries. On 8 February 1940 I/KTR 22 reached full strength when 6./KTR 9 became its 1st battery. At the same time the former 6./KTR 9 rearmed with 76mm cannons that the rest of the battalion had. When the Swedish volunteers of SFK began to relieve Finnish units, all but one battery (2./KTR 22) left for Bay of Viborg.

[*] Talvisodan taisteluita pp. 180-181 claims I/KTR 22 arrived already at this point, but I'm inclined to give more credence to Suomen kenttätykistön historia, 2. osa pp. 88-89.

Sources:

Raunio & Kilin: Talvisodan taisteluita
Paulaharju, Sinerma & Koskimaa: Suomen kenttätykistön historia, 2. osa

Do you know if there where any support units to the II Corp?


According to aforementioned Suomen kenttätykistön historia, 2. osa pp.162-163, II Armeijakunta had -- in addition to its divisions' organic artillery units -- at the end of July 1941 four heavy and two super heavy artillery battalions together with a number of artillery units formed of peace-time fortification artillery. The super heavy battalions were:

- Järeä Patteristo 3 (majuri Erik Lagerlöf) with nine 203mm howitzers
- Järeä Patteristo 4 (majuri Nils Kraemer) with nine 203mm howitzers

Sorry, that's all I can find for the time being.

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Post by Varjager » 19 May 2007 17:09

Thanks for all replys so far. One another small question. WHat Batt of 3:de Div was holding Summa at 1 feb until 3 Jaeger was moved in?

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Post by Mikko H. » 19 May 2007 18:28

On 1 February 1940 Summankylän lohko (Village of Summa Sector) was defended by Jalkaväkirykmentti 7 (eversti Kaarlo Heiskanen). On that date it had III/JR 7 (kapteeni Jaakko Hakanen) in front line west of Village of Summa, and I/JR 7 (majuri Yrjö Tuompo; from 2 Feb 1940 ratsumestari Kurt Alfthan) east of Village of Summa. Unfortunately my suorce doesn't make it clear which battalion had responsibility over the village itself.

Because of the losses suffered by these frontline battalions, they were relieved on 10 February 1940. II/JR7 (kapteeni Karl Söderholm) relieved I/JR 7 and Jääkäripataljoona 3 (kapteeni Ilmari Kunnas) relieved III/JR 7.

Source Raunio & Kilin: Talvisodan taisteluita

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Post by Varjager » 20 May 2007 06:15

Thanks for this info. You have been most helpfull. It is a pitty that more books on the subject is not writen in Swedish or English.
New question, was there any fighting in the City of Viipuri? I know the Finns fought for it 44 but was there any fighting in the winter war?

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Post by Mikko H. » 20 May 2007 10:14

Sorry, double post.
Last edited by Mikko H. on 20 May 2007 10:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mikko H. » 20 May 2007 10:20

New question, was there any fighting in the City of Viipuri? I know the Finns fought for it 44 but was there any fighting in the winter war?


As you probably know, the loss of Viipuri (Viborg) on 20 June 1944 was one of the most disgraceful moments in Finnish military history. The defending 20. Prikaati's II Battalion broke and run and the city has to be abandoned.

During the Winter War it was a different story. When fighting ended at 11 am (Finnish time) on 13 March 1940, frontline ran around Patterinmäki, just south-east of the centre of the city. Red Army had managed to conquer only the south-eastern suburbs, but that didn't prevent Soviet historians later claiming that they had conquered the whole city at the last moment (however, there's little doubt that Red Army would have taken the whole city had the fighting went on for some days longer).

The Soviet 7th Army (komandarm 2. ranga Kirill Meretskov) started its attack aiming to take Viipuri on 11 March. 50th Rifle Corps (komdiv Filipp Gorelenko) attacked in north, and 34th Rifle Corps in south -- all told, between Viipuri and Repola attacked 4 rifle corps with 13 rifle divisions. Aim was to outflank Viipuri from north and isolate its defenders. 34th Rifle Corps attacked towards Viipuri with its 7th Rifle Division (kombrig Sergey Verzin) which had 257th, 27th and 300th Rifle Regiments in frontline.

The city was defended by Jalkaväkirykmentti 7 (with the same men in command as mentioned earlier) reinforced with Kevyt Osasto 3 (Light Detachment 3) (kapteeni Karl Viisterä). As late as at 8.25 am (Finnish time) on 13 March -- only 2 hours and 35 minutes before the war's end -- 7th Army ordered 34th Rifle Corps to continue operations until Viipuri was completely taken, and then stop its attacks. This was in stark contrast to the orders received by other corps, which were ordered to stop their attacks and wait for peace to come, and says much how important goal the city was. But, as said, Red Army failed to capture the city before the peace came on 11 am.

Sources:

Raunio & Kilin: Talvisodan taisteluita
Leskinen & Juutilainen: Jatkosodan pikkujättiläinen

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Post by Mikko H. » 20 May 2007 11:47

Some more info...

When the 7th Army offensive started, approaches to Viipuri were defended by JR 7 (with Kev. Os. 3) and two battalions of JR 8 (majuri Sulo Laaksonen) of eversti Auno Kaila's 3. Divisioona. Commander of II Armeijakunta kenraaliluutnantti Hjalmar Öhquist wanted to withdraw the forces to the Patterinmäki defense line southeast of the center of the city, but this was refused by Mannerheim and kenraaliluutnantti Erik Heinrichs, commander of Army of the Isthmus. It was as important for Finns to hold the city as it was for the Soviets to capture it. Öhquist's situation was made worse because II AK's forces were detached to defend western shore of the Bay of Viborg, where the Red Army threatened to broke though to Army of the Isthmus's back.

JR 7 and 8 were able to hold their lines on 11 March 1940; full force of the Soviet assault fell largely north of their sectors on the dividing line between 3. and 5. Divisioona. Pressure against the regiments grew, but when the night fell, 3. Divisioona got orders to hold their positions 'at all costs' -- at first Heinrichs had given permission to withdraw to the Patterinmäki line, but cancelled that permission soon afterwards after having discussed with Mannerheim.

On the morning of 12 March the Soviet assault continued in full force along the dividing line between the 3. and 5. Divisioona, and soon also JR 7 south of the line was under attack. Soviet artillery and air forces also bombarded the Finnish defenders with impunity. At first JR 7 defenses were in confusion, but by afternoon the offensive was repelled. The situation was very dangerous: Red Army had penetrated the 5. Divisioona's southern flank (just north of JR 7's line) and advanced into the suburb of Karjala. On that afternoon Heinrichs finally gave Öhquist the permission to withdraw 3. Divisioona to Patterinmäki line. Öhquist immediately informed Kaila, and ordered the withdrawal to take place at midnight. However, the movement of forces started already in the evening of 12 March and was finished by 2 am. on 13 March. Engineers set the remaining buildings on fire in the suburbs of Talikkala and Kolikkomäki to create unobstructed lines of fire. Enemy didn't interfere with the withdrawal.

After the withdrawal to Patterinmäki line was complete, JR 8 was taken from the frontline to army corps reserve. JR 7, still reinforced with Kev. Os. 3, took now the responsibility of defending Viipuri, city block by city block if need be. They were given artillery support by Ryhmä I (I and III/KTR 3) and Ryhmä M (III/KTR 5 and I/KTR 21). Also the 5. Divisioona artillery was ordered to support Heiskanen's regiment. JR 7 put I and II/JR 7 in frontline and III/JR 7 and Kev. Os. 3 immediately behind them. At 5.20 am Kaila's division was ordered to hold their line unconditionally. Despite furious Soviet artillery fire (I/JR 7 counted at times 30 - 35 rounds/minute) no large-scale infantry attack came -- rather interesting given the orders by 7th Army I mentioned in the previous posting. Only some small infantry units probed Finnish lines and were repelled before the war ended at 11 am.

Source Laaksonen: Todellisuus ja harhat

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Post by Varjager » 20 May 2007 13:34

Mikko H thank you. You have been a great help for me. I will take a bow and lift my hat and say thank you Sir.

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