Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

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polux
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by polux » 12 Sep 2008 22:47

Hello,

Bernd,
Here are some preciseness relative to your message :

Source for Worm : Urkunde

Preciseness for Schmidt : Soldbuch with FP nr 30 286

Cordial greetings.

Polux

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Bernd R
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bernd R » 13 Sep 2008 14:16

Polux,
added , thanks !
Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bernd R » 13 Sep 2008 18:56

There is this double entry of one and the same person (after my interpretation)
Lizius, Max, 15.12.1944, Hauptmann und Stabsarzt, Geb.Art.Rgt. 1057 - BKAb
Krankentraeger Nase Lizius, San.Ers.Kp.7\427, BKAb 15.12.1944, durch 157 Geb.Div. F.d.R.? Radelberger?
double entry, because I've overtaken the following contributions for the time being
by Dan E. Moe from May 2007
Hauptmann und Stabsarzt Max Lizius (Geb.Art.Regt.1057) APBb 15.12.44
by Bergmolch from Oct 2007
Krankentraeger Nase Lizius, San.Ers.Kp.7\427, BKAb 15.12.1944, durch 157 Geb.Div. F.d.R.? Radelberger?
So, who is it ? What's his first name ? What's his rank ? What's his unit ?

157. Geb.Div. looks OK ; assigned to LXXV AK / Armee Ligurien in the Westalps in autumn/winter 1944. Geb.Art.Rgt. 1057 was part of this division.
Nase should be wrong ; this is not a first name ; a mistake in what reads Max !?
As 157. Geb.Div. was the former 157. Reserve-Division it is also OK that San.Ers.Kp 7/427 could be the unit, as those former reserve troops originally came from WK VII and were numbered "7" ; can't interprete the "/427" part right now.

So, is it a Krankenträger (private rank) whose Besitzzeugnis / Soldbuch was signed by a Hptm and Stabsarzt Radelberger or indeed a Hptm and Stabsarzt Lizius ?

Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bernd R » 13 Sep 2008 19:02

I've renewed this Sturmbannführer / BKA holder request by Marko over in the SS&Polizei forum
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 8&t=105473

Bernd

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Bergmolch
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bergmolch » 13 Sep 2008 19:48

My mistake, it's a very badly written Max.
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Bernd R
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bernd R » 14 Sep 2008 07:30

Quite clear now, thanks Tom !
So, a doctor/physician, who started as a Krankenträger, but quickly entered the standard career and promotion to Unterarzt der Reserve, Assistenzarzt, etc. Made it from Sanitätsgefreiter to Stabsarzt.
The respective stamp I can't read - Geb.Art.Rgt. ? - sygned by Radelberger, Abteilungs-Adjutant.

Obviously I did a "counting" of all the recent double entries - number in total of listed recipients was going down from 158 to 154.

Bernd

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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bernd R » 14 Sep 2008 08:05

Another double entry, resp. result of gathering all what's inside here
SS-Oscha. ? Wittmann (1. Kmp./I. Btl./Waffen-Gren. Rgt. d.SS 30) - APB
SS-Unterscharführer Wittmann Alfred SS-Jg.Btl 502 - 14(MG) LAH BKAs 01.05.45 24/03/1922
pic and more by Martin Mansson
Oberscharführer pips retouched ? started with "LAH" and ended with SS-Jäger-Bataillon 502 (?)

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Bernd R
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bernd R » 14 Sep 2008 08:15

Tom,
I think I have confused the name here
Etienne Wilhelm, Polizei Regiment 24, Russland - BKAb ?
Etienne is the family name, right ?
remaining gaps for date and rank ; and it is bronze I guess.

Bernd

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Bergmolch
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bergmolch » 14 Sep 2008 15:01

Bernd R wrote:Quite clear now, thanks Tom !
So, a doctor/physician, who started as a Krankenträger, but quickly entered the standard career and promotion to Unterarzt der Reserve, Assistenzarzt, etc. Made it from Sanitätsgefreiter to Stabsarzt.
The respective stamp I can't read - Geb.Art.Rgt. ? - sygned by Radelberger, Abteilungs-Adjutant.

Obviously I did a "counting" of all the recent double entries - number in total of listed recipients was going down from 158 to 154.

Bernd
Looks like Geb.Art.Rgt. but it's too blurry. The FP looks like 28206.

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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bergmolch » 14 Sep 2008 15:19

Bernd R wrote:Another double entry, resp. result of gathering all what's inside here
SS-Oscha. ? Wittmann (1. Kmp./I. Btl./Waffen-Gren. Rgt. d.SS 30) - APB
SS-Unterscharführer Wittmann Alfred SS-Jg.Btl 502 - 14(MG) LAH BKAs 01.05.45 24/03/1922
pic and more by Martin Mansson
Oberscharführer pips retouched ? started with "LAH" and ended with SS-Jäger-Bataillon 502 (?)

Bernd
On Wittmann docs I have: SS-Oberscharfuhrer at 3\9\44, on 1\05\42 he was at the Gen.Komp.LAH standing to a document signed at Berlin Lichterfelde, on 25\3\44 we have a doc named as 10\SS-Jg.Rgt. (who the hell are them?) and signed by a Generalmajor u.Kdr. 87 J.D., on 19\5\44 a document named as 3.\SS-Jag.Rgt.501 (FP 25367?), then on date 3\09\44 named as 3.\Ers.Jg.Btl.501 signed by an Oberstabsartz at Res.Lazarett Wolfenbuettel (maybe a Marsch Kp.?).
The BKT list ends at 3\6\44 with 27 Bandenkampftage so I would caption his details as BKAb 3.\SS-Jag.Rgt.501 (I think the 502 is a mistake of Freiwillige magazine).
I have just noticed that from his Bandenkampftage list seems like he took part at the Warsaw Uprising repression in august 44!!!
Very bad guy!!
Last edited by Bergmolch on 14 Sep 2008 15:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bergmolch » 14 Sep 2008 15:23

Bernd R wrote:Tom,
I think I have confused the name here
Etienne Wilhelm, Polizei Regiment 24, Russland - BKAb ?
Etienne is the family name, right ?
remaining gaps for date and rank ; and it is bronze I guess.

Bernd
Wilhelm (name) Etienne (Famlily name), III.\SS-Pol.Rgt.24 with R.-Staffel (Reinhardt?) in Ukraine (FP 20822A), BKAb (Source; period picture with name)
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Bernd R
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bernd R » 14 Sep 2008 18:21

Thanks, Tom, great info !
Etienne and Lizius are edited according to the newest.

The Oschaf. Wittmann entry I've not yet finished, let's give this some more time.
hm, Yes, SS-Jäg.Btl. (?) 501 (first formation) or designated "Rgt." then, strange.

Per AHFactbook the Kdr. 87. Inf.Div. on 25.03.1944 was GL Mauritz Freiherr von Strachwitz.
The attachment of this 10./SS-Jg.Rgt.?? (per doc) has to be to find somewhere within this structure :
Gliederung I. AK / AOK 16 / HGr Nord (Newel, Polozk) per 15.3.44 :
87. ID , 205. ID , 281. Sich.Div. , Gruppe Domansky (Oberst Heinrich D., Arko 401)
[data per Tessin and Mike's ABR]

Bernd

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Matt Gibbs
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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Matt Gibbs » 15 Sep 2008 09:43

Bergmolch wrote:Prasch had BKAg along with Kuehbandner on 15-02-45 as 2.Kp\KWB commander even if he previous was the leader of the SD-Aussenkommando Pola and was involved in few antipartisan actions attached to the KJ.
I would even say SS-Oscha Winter Oswald is just a duplicate of SS-Oscha Walter Oswald since I couldn't find Winter on the original source and as far as we know there were just 10 BKAg awarded to KWB\KJ members.

So:
SS-Strm. Armstark Richard Gold 09/03/1945
SS-Strm. Brauer Rudi Gold 15/02/1945
SS-Uscha Fabel Friedrich Gold 09/03/1945
SS-Strm. Götzinger Michael Gold 09/03/1945
SS-Ostuf. Kühbandner Erich Gold 15/02/1945
SS-Hscha Ludl Alfred Gold 15/02/1945
SS-Strm. Mootz Johann Gold 09/03/1945
SS-Ostuf. Prasch Helmuth Gold 15/02/1945
SS-Uscha Sinemus Kurt Gold 09/03/1945
SS-Oscha Walter Oswald Gold 09/03/1945
I posted from this list the first 4 from 15th Feb 45 about 3 yrs ago on here ;) Just revisiting the old threads and wondered why it was being re-discussed? Was I wrong about something?

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Re: Die Bandenkämpfer - Holders of Bandenkampfabzeichen

Post by Bergmolch » 15 Sep 2008 12:49

Matt, what you mean with re-discussed?
May you be more specific?

Those names are not up for discussion as long as I know.

Cheers

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Bernd R
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Re:

Post by Bernd R » 15 Sep 2008 13:19

Iltis wrote:I don’t know of anybody has already mentioned a photo in the excellent book To Battle by Mike Melnyk (page 224), it is of:

SS-Oscha Wittmann of 1 Kp./I Btl/Waffen-Gren Rgt 30 (14 SS Div). He is clearly wearing EK1, Infantry Assault Badge, Wound Badge (Silver or Gold) and Anti Partisan Badge. (Nov 44).

He is walking with the Ukrainian company commander and Wittmann obviously wears a cuff title, my eyes are not sharp enough to make it out though.

Pete
Tom and all,
to add to the case of Oschaf. Wittmann, see the above (posted on page 3). That's why the gathering of all bit and pieces created the double entry. IS the same man ? and an additional unit !?

Bernd :roll: :)

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