tb-3 raids on berlin.

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kriegsmarine221
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tb-3 raids on berlin.

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 16 Jan 2009 09:02

i heard that heavy bombers from russia were sent on bombing raids to berlin. i only know 2 atypes of aircraft participating in these raids. the pe-8 and the il-4. i was wondering if the tb-3 participated?

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vanir
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Re: tb-3 raids on berlin.

Post by vanir » 17 Jan 2009 03:06

Sure it did, escorted by Sopwith Snipes.

Sorry. I um...doubt it. Aircraft of this er...industrial era were best used in the medium range strike role as it was successfully employed (including in the SPB modification), by 1941. Even successful battlefield use of the SPB variation during 1942 was considered astonishing and remarkable. Expecting some to fly to Germany and back on a level bombing run at altitude would have to be regarded entirely suicidal and more than a little pointless, as not a bomb would drop before being shot down at the borders.

Not that there is anything wrong with a TB-3 that has an engine refit (not sure the M-17 could even get these babies to very much altitude). The Soviet strategic air force employed several, notably for early paratroop deployment.

It's basically a four engine Ju-52 with open crew areas.

As far as I know the long range bomber arms of the regional air forces were used to bomb Berlin. In this case located on the coast of the Gulf of Finland. Did they even have any TB-3 around there? It gets sort of confusing because of the number of reorganisations of the Soviet military between 1941 and 1943, including a complete restructuring during 1942.
Unfortunately due to sporadic and highly generalised record keeping which typifies Soviet documentation, inferrence by organisation would probably be the only way to track aircraft types by location and deployment, too.
Personally I use Luftwaffe combat records :wink:
Jason

kriegsmarine221
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Re: tb-3 raids on berlin.

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 17 Jan 2009 08:09

the tb-3 wasnt used on finland. soviet naval aviation used the il-4. strategic bombers wouldnt be much use againgst ships. and i agree. the tb-3 was much more slow and lumbering than the pe-8 and wouldve been shot down pretty quickly. but none of the planes sent to berlin were shot down.

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Ome_Joop
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Re: tb-3 raids on berlin.

Post by Ome_Joop » 17 Jan 2009 13:25

If the TB-3 wasn't used in Finland (during the winter war) how was it possible for Finnish troops to capture one at Kuhmo?

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: tb-3 raids on berlin.

Post by Juha Tompuri » 17 Jan 2009 14:39

Hi

Soviets also used Ermolayev Er-2 planes at the raids.
A bit lenghty topic about the Soviet Berlin raids: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &start=150
kriegsmarine221 wrote:the tb-3 wasnt used on finland. soviet naval aviation used the il-4. strategic bombers wouldnt be much use againgst ships. and i agree. the tb-3 was much more slow and lumbering than the pe-8 and wouldve been shot down pretty quickly. but none of the planes sent to berlin were shot down.
As Ome_Joop pointed out, TB-3's were used against Finland: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=147203
At the Berlin raid thred there are couple of mentions and photos about the shot down TB-7/Pe-8 planes.
But ...they were "own goals".

Regards, Juha

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vanir
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Re: tb-3 raids on berlin.

Post by vanir » 19 Jan 2009 09:51

I should point out I was talking about the southern coast of course :roll:

And thanks for the link Juha, interesting read. Well...later if I need to read the whole thing (you weren't kidding, kinda lengthy) but the bits I quickly gleaned were good stuff.

cheers :D
Jason

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Cantankerous
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Re: tb-3 raids on berlin.

Post by Cantankerous » 15 Sep 2023 22:13

Ome_Joop wrote:
17 Jan 2009 13:25
If the TB-3 wasn't used in Finland (during the winter war) how was it possible for Finnish troops to capture one at Kuhmo?
The Finnish Air Force shot down one TB-3 during the Winter War.

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/0912finland/

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