Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

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Rossano
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Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by Rossano » 31 Jul 2009 12:57

Hi everybody,
According to his biogr. Rendulić commanded HGr. Kurland 12.3-5.4.45. His successor became Hilpert as from ?6.4.45. If so, it is supposed that v.Krosigk took over command of 16.Armee as from 6?7.4.45 too (until 11.4.45 when he fell, so according to his mil. career). v.Krosigk´s successor at 16.Armee was as from 12.4.45 Volckamer v. Kirchensittenbach. Therefore Keilig´s data that v.Krosigk fell on 16.3.45 (day of his taking over command of 16.Armee) is evidently wrong.
This is also supported by Volksb. f. Gräbers. under v.Krosigk death date “Apr.45” (but Oberst wrong, must be Gen.Lt.).
Cheers Rossano

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by Dieter Zinke » 31 Jul 2009 15:59

You can't get away from that
Ernst-Anton von Krosigk + 16.03.1945 near Kandava/Lettland (Latvia) as OB AOK 16.

Source: u.a. (inter alia) Veit Scherzer

Dieter Z.

Rossano
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by Rossano » 31 Jul 2009 17:46

Dieter Zinke wrote:You can't get away from that
Ernst-Anton von Krosigk + 16.03.1945 near Kandava/Lettland (Latvia) as OB AOK 16.

Source: u.a. (inter alia) Veit Scherzer

Dieter Z.
Well Dieter
I realize that my "conclusion" may seem "strange" (according to the official data), but :
1) Rendulic until 6.4.45 (according to his biogr.)
2) v.Krosigk 11.4.45+ (according to his mil. career)
3) v.Krosigk 11.4.45+ (according to History of 1.Inf.Div.)
4) v.Krosigk 4.45+ (according to Volksb. f. Gräbers.)
5) Volckamer (Krosigk´s successor) from 12.4.45.
I know that You usually do not accept "suppositions"(which fight aginst official data),but this time I have 5 evidences to prove what I assert. So (I hope You do not mind, but..) I keep/consider my "conclusion" for correct (even if You think differently). Many of my "suppositions" (even against official evidence) in the past proved to be correct.
In any case this different interpretation (between us) does not change my idea that we may be friends and cooperators.
Bye Rossano G.

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by Dieter Zinke » 31 Jul 2009 18:24

Watch whom you trust 8-) !!!!
I want to remain "doubting Thomas" :wink: !!

In german: "Trau schau wem"

Your reserviert ungläubiger Thomas

BTW: Rendulic wasn't OB AOK 16

Rossano
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by Rossano » 31 Jul 2009 18:53

Dieter Zinke wrote:Watch whom you trust 8-) !!!!
I want to remain "doubting Thomas" :wink: !!

In german: "Trau schau wem"

Your reserviert ungläubiger Thomas

BTW: Rendulic wasn't OB AOK 16

Of course not ! Rendulic was cdr. of HGr. Kurland until 5.4.45 (read better my first message above). Therefore Hilpert took over command of HGr. Kurland on 6.4.45 (leaving command of 16.Armee) and consequently v.Krosigk took over command of 16.Armee on 6.4.45 too (until 11.4+).

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by Dieter Zinke » 31 Jul 2009 23:34

Rossano wrote: ... and consequently v.Krosigk took over command of 16.Armee on 6.4.45 too (until 11.4+).
miracles do happen and pigs will fly - Wer's glaubt wird seelig :P :P
Don't you believe it !! Sorry, - and again with my closing words: You are definitively mistaken 8-)


D. Z.

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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by histan » 01 Aug 2009 02:10

Command in HGr Kurland was complicated.

Officially (based on notes from their HPA files) Rendulic was OB HGr Kurland 11.03.1945 Order No K1535 and OB HGr Süd 07.04.1945 Order No K175(?)8 and Hilpert mFb HGr Kurland 07.04.1945 Order No K1798

But Rendulic was away from Kurland for a large part of that time with Hilpert in command while he was away.

The entry for Hilpert in Bradley contains the following footnote about the command of HGr Kurland

"Am 14.3.1945 wird Rendulic [vorübergehend] nach Wien berufen und übergibt erneut an Hilpert am 15.3.1945"

and for von Krosigk

15.03.1945 OB 16 Armee
16.03.1945 bei der Befehlsübernahme auf dem Gefechtsstand der 16 Armee durch Fliegerangriff gefallen

The HPA file for von Volkamer has no date for his command of 16 Armee

Regards

John

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USAF1986
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by USAF1986 » 01 Aug 2009 03:37

Here are the later assignments of General der Gebirgstruppe Friedrich Volckamer von Kirchensittenbach per his short biographical profile from Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv, Freiburg.

Best regards,
Shawn

01.10.1932 Taktiklehrer Inf.Schue Dresden
01.10.1934 Adj.Kriegs Schule München
01.10.1935 Btls.Kdr. II/Geb.Jäg.Rgt. 99
15.07.1938 St.VII.A.K. als Gr.Ltr.IIa u. II
26.08.1939 Gr.Ltr. IIa.b.stellv.Gen.Kdo.VII.A.K.
30.04.1940 Kdr.Geb.Jäg.Rgt. 141
19.04.1941 Chef St.Insp.Erz.u.Bild.Wesens d.H.im OKH
01.05.1942 stellv.Insp.Erz.u.Bild.Wesens d.H.im OKH
01.12.1942 Führ.Res.
02.12.1942 m.d.F.b. 8 Jäg.Div.
15.03.1943 Kdr. 8 Jäg.Div.
25.10.1944 K.G. L.A.K.
12.04.1945 OB.16.Armee m.d.F.b.
09.05.1945-08.10.1955 in Russischer Kriegsgefangenschaft

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genstab
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by genstab » 02 Aug 2009 16:35

Oh jeez- now who commanded 16. Armee from Gen. von Krosigk's death on 16-3 to Gen. Volckamer's taking over on 12.4?

Best regards,
Genstab

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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by histan » 06 Oct 2009 21:12

I have today examined the HPA file for von Krosigk and it states:

10.04.1945 gefallen!
07.04.1945 mFb 16 Armee Order No K1798
30.01.1945 KG XVI AK Order No K1159
15.11.1944 mFb XVI AK Order No K564

and contains this dated 15.04.1945 from Hilpert as mFb H Gr Kurland - "Gen d Inf von Krosigk hat das XVI AK von 14.11.44 - 6.4.45 geführt, ist am 7.4.45 mit der Führung de 16 Armee beauftragt worden und am 10.04.45 durch Bombenvolltreffer in Kandau (Kurland) gefallen."

This ties in with the HPA file for Hilpert
07.04.1945 mFb H Gr Kurland Order No K1798

and with the HPA file for Gottfried Weber
07.04.1945 mFb XVI AK Order No K1798

Whilst I accept that Keilig and Bradley must have a good reason for giving 16.03.1945 as his date of death, I also find it hard to believe that HPA would issue a change of command order that included a man who was already dead!

Regards

John

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by Dieter Zinke » 06 Oct 2009 22:25

So a gap in our knowledge is finally filled by reliable and heartily welcome documentation !!!
And this is the end of all previous speculations - whencesoever !!

Many thanks !!

Dieter Zinke

histan
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by histan » 07 Oct 2009 00:14

My dear Dieter

Is anything ever certain?!?

Will another document turn up - such as a KTB - that has other information?

We can only keep searching and try to make sense of what we find.

Regards

John

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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by HFK » 07 Oct 2009 03:47

Good evening, AJK in "Wehrmacht at War" shows Gen Friedrich Volckamer von K. CO of 16 Army from 3-16 to 5-8-45. HFK

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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 07 Oct 2009 05:27

Will another document turn up - such as a KTB - that has other information?
We will try :wink:

I know I had stated this again and again, but in my opinion the data of the HPA are not the last clue of wisdom, especially for me you is rather interesting in getting dates when the persons were commanding in reality and not on Paper. Look at Denecke who was, according to his HPA file at Führerreserve in February 1945, but in reality commanding a Division within AOK 11 :P

Jan-Hendrik

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genstab
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Re: Death date of Gen. v. Krosigk

Post by genstab » 07 Oct 2009 08:48

There is now a problem with Gen. Hilpert's command of Hgr. Kurland. In an earlier post on Gen. Dr. Rendulic, Dieter gave 25.3.45 for his leaving Hgr. Kurland. If Gen. Hilpert didn't assume command mFb until 7.4, who stood in until his arrival?

Best Regards,
Genstab

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