Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke, askropp and Frech.
chris44
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by chris44 » 18 Oct 2009 18:17

John Toner wrote:A1 H19 Kohlermann & Evers ?

John
you re right John Kohlermann and Evers
and Alfred-Helmut Wolff
(earlier named as Joachim-Helmut Wolff ...first names corrected by a relative of Wolff)

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 18 Oct 2009 20:01

Hi all,

there were two "cases" / issues without sufficient comments and without a 100% clarification. So, thanks in advance for contributions to prepare a decision what is correct, resp. what's the right way of listing these men.

#1 - Glasl / Franek
robertmoore wrote:Hello, again, Bernd,

Relating to Point 1 of your two point statement, in which you indicate or in fact believe that the depicted is not Glasl but you are convinced that it is General Franek.

It is a poor picture and it is difficult to really tell, but I can see no mustache (which acccording to other pix I have seen of him) is black or at least dark. There is no indication that the officer has a mustache and looking at the shape of his head, I think may leave the id open to doubt. This is just my view, but I think it may need some clarification and/or other substantiation.

Just a thought.

Take care.

Terry
in reply to me :
1) I take it, that we have an agreement that the page 311 series shows -> Dr. Friedrich Franek.
There was no support for Glasl. Franek is a convincing id to me.
(see the other pic of Franek on page 311, too)

Hello Terry,
you are right ! It is believe and conviction only on my side. I hadn't and don't have an argument or a proof. More a feeling and reading between and behind the lines. Not enough, and thanks for your hint !

So, a qualified objection requires a qualified id in my point of view. Anyone with more for Terry and all ?
Otherwise I tend to put this on the confirmations list.

/ Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 18 Oct 2009 20:20

#2 - Rudi Wolfmüller
Feldpost wrote:On page 171 of this thread, Rudi Wolfmueller is labeled as an imposter. I can, in fact, confirm that he was awarded every award that he is wearing in this photo except for the Ritterkreuz - I wouldn't rule out that he received this award in the last days of the war.
and added : two pics and Soldbuch on page 316


in reaction to the listing in the "fake" section (page 171) :
post war imposter, hence all the awards etc. His real name is Rudi Wolfmüller


hawkeye 1 said :
Feldpost wrote:Awards page from Wolfmueller's Soldbuch.
This "Soldbuch" is just as fake as the Soldier representing it!
Who is right ? Thanks in advance for more on this.

Fundamental data I'm aware : no KC (not even mentioned by Scherzer = newest KC work) ; no DKiG (not listed in Veit Scherzer, Die Träger des Deutschen Kreuzes in Gold der Luftwaffe 1941-45)

and, Feldpost,
we don't see "another shot of Wolfmüller wearing the KC" on page 316 ; we see a photo which is retouched ! These kind of photos don't have the slightest worth for clarifying questions like the one here basically.

/ Bernd

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FANGIO
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by FANGIO » 19 Oct 2009 02:19

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hawkeye 1
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by hawkeye 1 » 19 Oct 2009 03:12

Bernd R wrote:#2 - Rudi Wolfmüller
Feldpost wrote:On page 171 of this thread, Rudi Wolfmueller is labeled as an imposter. I can, in fact, confirm that he was awarded every award that he is wearing in this photo except for the Ritterkreuz - I wouldn't rule out that he received this award in the last days of the war.
and added : two pics and Soldbuch on page 316


in reaction to the listing in the "fake" section (page 171) :
post war imposter, hence all the awards etc. His real name is Rudi Wolfmüller


hawkeye 1 said :
Feldpost wrote:Awards page from Wolfmueller's Soldbuch.
This "Soldbuch" is just as fake as the Soldier representing it!
Who is right ? Thanks in advance for more on this.

Fundamental data I'm aware : no KC (not even mentioned by Scherzer = newest KC work) ; no DKiG (not listed in Veit Scherzer, Die Träger des Deutschen Kreuzes in Gold der Luftwaffe 1941-45)

and, Feldpost,
we don't see "another shot of Wolfmüller wearing the KC" on page 316 ; we see a photo which is retouched ! These kind of photos don't have the slightest worth for clarifying questions like the one here basically.

/ Bernd
In regards to my statement above;
The Soldbuch entry for his " Horst Wessel" Kuffband on 20 Nov. 1943, he would have to be in Zerstörer Geschwader 26, what at this time was part of the 6. Jagdgeschwader. So why is this Soldbuch stamped by the 1st Jagdgeschwader?
Also, this Soldbuch looks like it was filled out in one day, same handwriting for all entrys. Even for a replacement soldbuch,why did they forget the entry for the deutsche cross? Just to many errors. He is not wearing his kufftitles in order. When a soldier was transfered to another unit he would have to take the older ones off. Never wear them all together. Just my thoughts.

John Toner
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by John Toner » 19 Oct 2009 06:51

Hello Fangio

Your first Fallschirm RKT is Erich Lepkowski.

John

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AlifRafikKhan
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by AlifRafikKhan » 19 Oct 2009 21:02

Who is this Ritterkreuzträger (from 6th Panzer Division maybe)?

Source : "The Panzer Divisions" from Osprey
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Doktor Krollspell
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 19 Oct 2009 21:31

Hello Alif!

Your Panzer RKT from the 6. Panzer-Division could be either Hans-Günther Bethke, RK on 04.09.1940 as an Oberleutnant and Führer 5./Pz.Rgt 11 or... Erich Löwe, RK on 04.09.1940 as a Hauptmann and Chef 3./Pz.Abt 65.

If the unit depicted is part of the 6. Panzer-Division that is!


Just my two cents,

Krollspell

chris44
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by chris44 » 19 Oct 2009 22:37

Doktor Krollspell wrote:Hello Alif!

Your Panzer RKT from the 6. Panzer-Division could be either Hans-Günther Bethke, RK on 04.09.1940 as an Oberleutnant and Führer 5./Pz.Rgt 11 or... Erich Löwe, RK on 04.09.1940 as a Hauptmann and Chef 3./Pz.Abt 65.

If the unit depicted is part of the 6. Panzer-Division that is!


Just my two cents,

Krollspell
according to nac its Hans-Günther Bethke
better picture enclosed with description Bethke

http://audiovis.nac.gov.pl/obraz/36181/ ... 4b7035573/

chris44
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AlifRafikKhan
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by AlifRafikKhan » 19 Oct 2009 22:48

Thank you very much Herr Doktor and Chris! :D

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bake
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by bake » 20 Oct 2009 22:12

Who is the RKT with GFM von Brauchitsch.


From Ebay
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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 23 Oct 2009 12:12

docarchiv wrote:left : Michael Fischer - right : ? / AHF id
86c1_1.jpg (13.16 ) 575-mal betrachtet

page 197

right: Oblt. Max Wippermann
chris44 said : but what about Johannes Dienhold???
docarchiv replied :
Hello,

no idea. I have the original photograph in my collection. It belonged to Otto Gemünden I knew personally. Be confinced - Max Wippermann.
docarchiv
done : Max Wippermann
Thanks docarchiv for this id finally ! We had a lot of discussions in the past about this photo. There was a clear "No" to Willi Hägele (the first id) - it remained open if Dienhold is depicted. For all those interested in a last re-do and check : go to the index and look for the listed Fischer and Hägele. Or use the thread-search - top left of the page and type one of the names above to re-follow the several postings and summaries of this case.

One down, Best regards
Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 23 Oct 2009 12:39

Two more older pics are identified.

Crossed out from the "No id" list :
page 270 : Ludwig Stautner
See two other Stautner pics on the index for comparisn. In particular see this old and renewed ABR thread
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7977
with the id and more !


Crossed out from the confirmations list :
page 4 (Offz behind Goebbels) : Otto Benzin
Compare with any of the known head portraits of Benzin ; no doubt, 100%.
Additionally see another photo from the same occasion - Demjansk Kämpfer at the meeting with Goebbels, May 1943 - (source: Bundesarchiv / wikimedia) :
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... mpfang.jpg

Thanks to a colleague watching for this input !! :D
/ Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 23 Oct 2009 14:09

RE : the Glasl/Franek case and the Wolfmüller case.

Treated like that.

Listed on the confirmations list :
Dr. Friedrich Franek (bigger size down the page)
-> summary of the case

A proof or more in-depth-argumentation is missing. If someone could take the time to look for Glasl's assignments (Italy ?) ?

Kept listed on the "fake" list :
post war imposter, hence all the awards etc. His real name is Rudi Wolfmüller
-> summary of the case and more arguments by hawkeye 1
Listed according to the standard handling. All what was said before + qualified input by hawkeye 1 + no counter-argument by feldpost = "AHF id". Open to the proof of the contrary.

/ Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 23 Oct 2009 14:57

The index is updated. All pics on the last pages are captioned (transfer to the index is ongoing).

Not identified :

page 323 : ~_020.jpg , A 1 RKverl.jpg , A 1 LW.jpg , A 1 LW1.jpg

page 324 : A 1 LW2.jpg

page 325 : A 1 H6.jpg

page 329 : A 1 H15.jpg - Gen. to the right ? , A 1 H17.jpg , A 1 H18.jpg , A 1 H20.jpg

page 330 : 54.88 KiB , IMG_47097 eb.jpg

and on the confirmations list :
Georg Jauer
Fritz Kühn or Wilhelm von Apell ?


Many thanks to everyone for a remarkable last series !
/ Bernd

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