Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

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Koenig u. Kaisertreu
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Post by Koenig u. Kaisertreu » 10 Sep 2004 01:56

I think it was/is quite impossible for anyone, including Stalin's most "inner circle" to state with absolute certainty thet he "planned" anything.. He was a most secretive man, & quite paranoid...He rarely shared his plans with anyone until the last moment, from all I have read, & was a supreme opportunist...If it had been his determination to eradicate the Jews of the Soviet Union, I doubt he would have betrayed that to anyone until the maschine was in motion....That he was capable of such a "plan"...absolutely.....That anyone else was aware of it in anything other than vague suspiscions is something I doubt....Paul

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Post by David Thompson » 10 Sep 2004 16:39

Two off-topic posts by Aleksei22 were deleted by the moderator.

PF
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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by PF » 16 Apr 2010 14:03


PFLB
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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by PFLB » 16 Apr 2010 14:27

He was suspicious of anyone who might potentially have outside loyalties, which included Jews after the foundation of Israel. But I rather doubt that he would have tried to exterminate the Jews. If Jews were suspicious they could simply be encouraged to migrate to Israel.

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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by PF » 25 Apr 2010 16:57

Well...the book "The Black Book of Russian Jewry" was suppressed...reportably what Stalin had in mind was after any potential Jewish leadership was destroyed {such as the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee} was that the mass of USSR Jewry would be transported to labor camps...
Last edited by PF on 25 Apr 2010 20:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by David Thompson » 25 Apr 2010 17:14

Source(s), please.

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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by PF » 25 Apr 2010 17:35


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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by David Thompson » 25 Apr 2010 17:46

Thanks, PF.

michael mills
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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by michael mills » 26 Apr 2010 06:40

reportably what Stalin had in mind was after any potential Jewish leadership was destroyed {such as the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee} was that the mass of USSR Jewry would be transported to labor camps...
There is absolutely no evidence of any such plan by Stalin, only rumours.

It is likely that he was planning another round of terror, but there is no evidence that it was targeted specifically at Jews. If Stalin had lived to implement a new Great Terror, it is more likely that it would have been aimed at a variety of targets, including potential rivals within the Soviet Establishment, like the earlier purges, rather than at a single ethnic group.

Furthermore, the sources quoted by PF do not support his claim of a plan by Stalin to deport Soviet Jews to labour camps. On the contrary, his sources point out the extremely dubious nature of the claims about such a plan, and the total lack of any real evidence for its existence.

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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by PFLB » 26 Apr 2010 15:12

I don't really see that the Doctors' Plot and the elimination of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee proves that a second Holocaust was being planned. Stalin was always suspicious of people with any sort of political influence outside the USSR. This included the JAFC. This also included foreign communists who took refuge (ha!) in the USSR. Let us, for a moment, accept that the intention was to eliminate the Jewish intelligentsia so as to deprive Soviet Jews of a distinct identity, or at any rate to render that identity subordinate to their identity as citizens of the Soviet Union. That would still not constitute a second Holocaust, in the sense of biological extermination of Jews generally. One can say with the benefit of hindsight that in Nazi Germany such steps were a precursor to the Holocaust, but that doesn't mean that whenever they occur a similar program of extermination must be being planned.

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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by Mark V » 26 Apr 2010 21:07

michael mills wrote:If Stalin had lived to implement a new Great Terror, it is more likely that it would have been aimed at a variety of targets
Stalin was indeed the "great equalizer" among despot dictators. He killed with surprising equality between races, religions, political views, professions, enemies, friends, too skilled, incompetent...

Regards

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by Sergey Romanov » 01 May 2010 10:16

The "deportation of Jews" rumors are qualitatively not different from "Jewish soap" rumors. Most of the "hypothesis" is based on second-/third-hand information (e.g. a friend of an uncle had an access to the deportation lists sent from above). The (scant) alleged direct witnesses' statements (the alleged Bulganin testimony) do not pass the smell test and are suspect for a whole bunch of reasons, just like the alleged direct witnesses' statements about Jewish soap (Auerbach's memoir). The rumors appeared at the end of 1940s when the state antisemitism began to rise. In the end they - sprinkled with some fakes and false or distorted claims by prominent individuals - crystallized in several accounts of what was supposedly to happen to the Jews in some books by supposed "historians", which included lurid fantasy details like hanging of prominent Jews in the Red Square. And of course some people in the West gladly swallowed the BS. Gennady Kostyrchenko's articles and books leave no doubt that the whole story is without foundation.

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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by jasongunpoint » 13 Dec 2014 16:50

In regards to the comment asking if Stalin committed a "holocaust" against non-communists, the answer is no. He did, however, commit genocide against his own people during his purges due to paranoia. Basically he wiped out anybody who was suspected to be an enemy of the state but this could have been something as trivial as an officer seeing someone hitting on his woman so for revenge he would report him as being a suspected subversive to the communist regime and they would have him killed "just to be sure." The term "holocaust" refers specifically to the genocide carried out by Nazi Germany against the Jews of the occupied territories. Other victims of the holocaust were gypsies, homosexuals, freemasons, Jehovah's witnesses, alcoholics, and the mentally handicapped as well as a few other groups. The term comes from an ancient Greek word holos kaustos meaning "burnt offerings" from ancient ritual animal sacrifices. The term "holocaust" did not become a common reference to the Nazi persecution and genocide against the Jews of Europe until the 1970s when a television movie mini-series titled "holocaust" aired on television. So no Stalin never committed a holocaust but yes he did commit genocide.

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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by Linkagain » 29 Oct 2021 03:31


michael mills
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Re: Did Stalin plan a second holocaust?

Post by michael mills » 29 Oct 2021 05:42

This source is obviously produced by some Jewish religious extremist group, judging by its content. It seems to be implying that Stalin was killed by God.

That Purim night, a few days before the Jewish doctors were due to go to trial, and just thirty minutes after Rabbi Silver's foretelling of Stalin's vulnerable fate, Stalin was said to have “collapsed in a fit of rage” during a meeting in which his supporters expressed opposition to his evil plan, according to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency. That Purim, thousands of Jewish prisoners were freed. Joseph Stalin died on March 5, just a few days later, to the great relief of Russian Jewry. “To this day, I am choked with emotion every time I think back to that Purim of miracles,” recounts Mrs. Batyah Barg.
Do we need this sort of mystical mumbo-jumbo?

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