Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
It must be added that the Baltic Fleet possessed at least 2 "SB" type landing crafts (specially constructed self-propelled barges). Probably, Finnish intelligence for some reason confused them with allied-built LCT and that was the source of the report quoted above.
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1421525Art wrote:The same number was lannded on Suonionsaari on 4 July, it's not excluded that these were the same tanks. As concerns landing crafts, by the start of the landing operation (1 July) the skerry ships detachments of the Baltic Fleet (captain 1st rank Feldman), used to land troops, consisted of 2 ferries (coupled tenders), 32 tenders, and 30 cutters (13 "KM" tupe and 17 "ZIS" type), that is from the history of the Batlic Fleet. On 4 July this detachments was divided by two groups: the first, consisting of 16 tenders and 20 cutters landed 160th Rifle Regiment on Teikarssari and the second - 2 ferries, 14 tenders, 19 cutters - 143rd Rifle Regiment on Suonionsaari. It seems that one ferry, consisting of a couple of barges, could carry 2 light tanks.Juha Tompuri wrote: According to Lappalainen, 4 tanks (from 152th Tank Brigade?) were sent to Teikarsaari.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1480101Martti Kujansuu wrote:Captured message. Forwarded to Kuokka [at 1.30 a.m.?].
July 5th [1944], 6 p.m. 152nd Tank Brigade to St. Petersburg Front HQ. Four T-26s from 2nd Battalion [?] will continue the attack. 20/79 g (Teikarinsaari?). Five T-26s have been concentrated to square 22843 (the NE tip of Suonionsaari). Waiting for an answer how to act on square 2079 (Teikarinsaari).
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3222323Kaapattu sanoma. Annettu 1,30 Kuokka.
5.7. klo 18.
152.Ps.Pr. Pietarin rint.esikunnalle 4 T-26 ps.vaunua II/Patl:sta jatkaa hyökkäystä.
20.79 g (Teikarinsaari?) 5 T-26 vaunua on keskitetty neliöön 22843 (Suonionsaaren koillispää) odottaa vastausta toimintaa varten neliössä 2079 (Teikarinsaari).
Regards, Juha
Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
Compare with the war diary of the 59th Army:
"5.7 ...152nd Tank Brigade: 2 companies at Sommee station. One company with 4 tanks is on Teikar-Sari island, the rest 6 tanks are ready for transfer to the same place".
"5.7 ...152nd Tank Brigade: 2 companies at Sommee station. One company with 4 tanks is on Teikar-Sari island, the rest 6 tanks are ready for transfer to the same place".
Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
The same topic was recently discussed on a Russian forum:
http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3785
and they have uploaded several schemes from a Finnish documentary (situation on Teikarsaari 30.06-1.07):
If I understand correctly, 3./RP 7 is "3rd company, 7th Coastal Battalion", TK - "cannon company", PSTTKI - antitank guns, KK - machinegun, ITTKI - antiaircraft machinegun. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3785
and they have uploaded several schemes from a Finnish documentary (situation on Teikarsaari 30.06-1.07):
If I understand correctly, 3./RP 7 is "3rd company, 7th Coastal Battalion", TK - "cannon company", PSTTKI - antitank guns, KK - machinegun, ITTKI - antiaircraft machinegun. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
Hello Art:
PSTTKI - panssarintorjuntatykki - AT Gun
KK - konekivääri - machinegun
ITTKI - ilmatorjuntatykki - AA Gun (not machinegun)
Rgrds Petri
Edit; and yes:
RP - Rannikkopataljoona - Coastal Battalion
TK - Tykkikomppania - Anti-tank gun company
PSTTKI - panssarintorjuntatykki - AT Gun
KK - konekivääri - machinegun
ITTKI - ilmatorjuntatykki - AA Gun (not machinegun)
Rgrds Petri
Edit; and yes:
RP - Rannikkopataljoona - Coastal Battalion
TK - Tykkikomppania - Anti-tank gun company
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
Please correct me if was wrong, but IMHO TK=Heavy Company included mortars, also.PBlitz wrote:TK - Tykkikomppania - Anti-tank gun company
Or am I referreng to the German organisation?
Anyhow, with a summer smile
J-P
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
JH,
Just a quick translation of the names. TK seemed a reasonable choice as AT guns were there. 80 seems a very high number for a Tykkikomppania though?
Surely not a TK-komppania? As in Tiedotuskomppania - Informations Company - photographers, storywriters etc. Pen is mightier than sword?
Edit: Mortar company is a separate company? If we are talking about Finnish Infantry regiments with their separate Mortar and AT Gun companies? I could be very well the one in err here - would not be the first time!
Edit2: Found it! 80.TK = 80. Torjuntakomppania = 80th Defencecompany (translation??)
Source: "Puolustusvoimain joukot 1941-1945 peitelukuina Koonnut Pentti Kopsa"
Just a quick translation of the names. TK seemed a reasonable choice as AT guns were there. 80 seems a very high number for a Tykkikomppania though?
Surely not a TK-komppania? As in Tiedotuskomppania - Informations Company - photographers, storywriters etc. Pen is mightier than sword?
Edit: Mortar company is a separate company? If we are talking about Finnish Infantry regiments with their separate Mortar and AT Gun companies? I could be very well the one in err here - would not be the first time!
Edit2: Found it! 80.TK = 80. Torjuntakomppania = 80th Defencecompany (translation??)
Source: "Puolustusvoimain joukot 1941-1945 peitelukuina Koonnut Pentti Kopsa"
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
PBlitz, you are absolutely right.
TK means Tykkikomppania or AT Gun Company.
The "KRH-komppania" (Mortar Coy) was not in with "Tykkikomppania" excluding the very start of the wars.
J-P
TK means Tykkikomppania or AT Gun Company.
The "KRH-komppania" (Mortar Coy) was not in with "Tykkikomppania" excluding the very start of the wars.
J-P
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
JH,
I am actually absolutely in error
TK = Torjuntakomppania
Tyk.K = Tykkikomppania, but many lazy souls apparently have used TK instead of the proper Tyk.K when referring to Tykkikomppania.
I am actually absolutely in error
TK = Torjuntakomppania
Tyk.K = Tykkikomppania, but many lazy souls apparently have used TK instead of the proper Tyk.K when referring to Tykkikomppania.
Panssari Salama - Paying homage to Avalon Hill PanzerBlitz and Panzer Leader board games from those fab '70s.
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
Queating:
TK = Torjuntakomppania
Tyk.K = Tykkikomppania, but many lazy souls apparently have used TK instead of the proper Tyk.K when referring to Tykkikomppania.
It must either be a Coy of the Coastal Regiments or a temporaly unit.
Coastal Coy it must have been!
Juha-Pekka
Now we were on-line, so our messages are seriously disturbed by the enemy!
J-P
TK = Torjuntakomppania
Tyk.K = Tykkikomppania, but many lazy souls apparently have used TK instead of the proper Tyk.K when referring to Tykkikomppania.
It must either be a Coy of the Coastal Regiments or a temporaly unit.
Coastal Coy it must have been!
Juha-Pekka
Now we were on-line, so our messages are seriously disturbed by the enemy!
J-P
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
LOL
It is funny how one gets a "putkinäkö". I definitively knew that Tyk.K is a Tyk.K, but once I saw the graphic of the anti-tank gun together with "TK", see what happened
And a final edit: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=8049
It is funny how one gets a "putkinäkö". I definitively knew that Tyk.K is a Tyk.K, but once I saw the graphic of the anti-tank gun together with "TK", see what happened
And a final edit: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=8049
Panssari Salama - Paying homage to Avalon Hill PanzerBlitz and Panzer Leader board games from those fab '70s.
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
Yeah!
If I'm even close to the thruth "Torjuntakomppaniat" or "Repression Coy's were from "Rannikkoprikaateista", Coastal Inf.Brg's.
Keep an eye of the enemy!
J-P
If I'm even close to the thruth "Torjuntakomppaniat" or "Repression Coy's were from "Rannikkoprikaateista", Coastal Inf.Brg's.
Keep an eye of the enemy!
J-P
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
Hmmm... A bit off topic, but these translations seem to be, errr... they sound wrong somehow...
Blocking Company? A goal keeper might make a block... Defence Company? That does not work... Repression Company, not happy with that either... Repressive fire - yes, repressive company, umm, no.
What was their role, do you know? Some sort of "suojajoukko", perhaps not the best men material either?
How about a Security Company? I know it's not the proper translation, but a widely used english term instead. Fits with their role? Security units often had responsibilities of securing rear areas etc?
- Petri
Blocking Company? A goal keeper might make a block... Defence Company? That does not work... Repression Company, not happy with that either... Repressive fire - yes, repressive company, umm, no.
What was their role, do you know? Some sort of "suojajoukko", perhaps not the best men material either?
How about a Security Company? I know it's not the proper translation, but a widely used english term instead. Fits with their role? Security units often had responsibilities of securing rear areas etc?
- Petri
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
Hello to everyone! I did a research about Vyborg bay fighting in 1941-1944 using Central NAvy Archive documents and russian secondary sources. During research i couldn't find any details about Ravansaari island fighting. Open russian sources only mention that the island was captured be the midday of 4th of july without details and there is no description in navy documents. Unfornately, i don't know finnish language (yet), and I please your help. Some years ago I was given a short transcription from Nillo Lappalainen book but also withou details. Thank you!
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Re: Bay of Viipuri (Vyborg) 1944
In fact the Torjuntakomppaniat were Coastal Companies originally trained by the Coast-Artillery as close support troops of the coast fortification.PBlitz wrote:Hmmm... A bit off topic, but these translations seem to be, errr... they sound wrong somehow...
Blocking Company? A goal keeper might make a block... Defence Company? That does not work... Repression Company, not happy with that either... Repressive fire - yes, repressive company, umm, no.
What was their role, do you know? Some sort of "suojajoukko", perhaps not the best men material either?
How about a Security Company? I know it's not the proper translation, but a widely used english term instead. Fits with their role? Security units often had responsibilities of securing rear areas etc?
- Petri
To be honest, they weren't formed with the men above the average, i.e. they were mostly crapped. Sorry for saying that!
Back to the subject of translating these bloody TK's:
Maybe the translation might be "Coastal defence Company"?
Now I give up. Let us leave the Forum to the professionals!
Greets
Juha-Pekka
P.S. I love this milwink Smilie now and forever!
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"