Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer 1944

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Juha Tompuri » 19 Aug 2013 19:09

Esa K wrote:And the same T-34 ”236” (or "238"?) knocked out in Viborg.
Image
I think it too is the "236" but the only visible damage I can see is the missing second roadwheel from the right side of the tank.
Image http://forum.worldoftanks.ru/index.php? ... t__920#top

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Juha Tompuri » 19 Aug 2013 19:46

Several tank types and other equipment can be seen at this Yuli Raizman Soviet film from 1944-45:
К вопросу о перемирии с Финляндией.
Läpimurto Kannaksella ja rauhanneuvottelut" (Breakthrough on the Isthmus and the peace negotiations).
Finnish subtitles.



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Last edited by Juha Tompuri on 19 Aug 2013 20:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Juha Tompuri » 19 Aug 2013 21:04

Art wrote: Pay attention that Sapronov says that this tank belonged to the 1 Tank Brigade, yet I'm not sure that he is right
If I have undrstood correctly, Slava here mentions that the T-34's carrying a tactical numbers 100-199 belonged to the 1 Tank Brigade and the ones with 200-299 belonged to 152:nd Tank Brigade:
http://isl.livejournal.com/458305.html? ... 5#t5720385

Some other tank photos from there:

T-34-76 "151":
Image

Churchill (click the link to see the whole photo):
Image http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i295/ ... 944/11.jpg

IS-2:
Image


KV-1 "630":
Image http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i295/ ... 944/34.jpg

+ http://isl.livejournal.com/458305.html? ... 9#t5726529
For example a BA-10 APC?
Image http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff32 ... 440804.jpg

Regards, Juha
Last edited by Juha Tompuri on 19 Aug 2013 22:03, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Esa K » 20 Aug 2013 13:19

Art wrote:
Esa K wrote: And the same T-34 ”236” (or "238"?) knocked out in Viborg.
It is rather surprising to see tanks of the 152 Tank Brigade in Vyborg. My understanding is that this unit bypassed Vyborg from the east going to Tammisuo. Pay attention that Sapronov says that this tank belonged to the 1 Tank Brigade, yet I'm not sure that he is right:
http://www.tankfront.ru/ussr/tbr/tbr-f/tbr123f.html
I think it is a tank from 152'nd TBr. cause the tactical number in the 200-serial. And yes, 152 TBr was north east of Viborg heading in the Tammisuo direction, but could some (or ony one) tank have entered the town cause, as I have understood it, there was some rivalry, or a race, between the Soviet units to be the first ones in Viborg?

Juha Tompuri wrote: I think it too is the "236" but the only visible damage I can see is the missing second roadwheel from the right side of the tank
And yes, maybe knocked out was the wrong word, damaged is better in this case.

And thanks Juha for the link to the Raizman film, lots of tanks to see there.


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Esa K

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Juha Tompuri » 20 Aug 2013 19:18

Esa K wrote:
Art wrote:
Esa K wrote: And the same T-34 ”236” (or "238"?) knocked out in Viborg.
It is rather surprising to see tanks of the 152 Tank Brigade in Vyborg. My understanding is that this unit bypassed Vyborg from the east going to Tammisuo. Pay attention that Sapronov says that this tank belonged to the 1 Tank Brigade, yet I'm not sure that he is right:
http://www.tankfront.ru/ussr/tbr/tbr-f/tbr123f.html
I think it is a tank from 152'nd TBr. cause the tactical number in the 200-serial. And yes, 152 TBr was north east of Viborg heading in the Tammisuo direction, but could some (or ony one) tank have entered the town cause, as I have understood it, there was some rivalry, or a race, between the Soviet units to be the first ones in Viborg?
Perhaps "236" not going in to battle, but coming from it?
Or the other way around?

Image
Image

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Art » 21 Aug 2013 19:18

Juha Tompuri wrote: Perhaps "236" not going in to battle, but coming from it?
Or the other way around?
The tank was moving this way:
Image
The same place on the streetview nowadays:
Image
Going to repair workshop was possible IMO.

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Juha Tompuri » 21 Aug 2013 19:55

Art wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote: Perhaps "236" not going in to battle, but coming from it?
Or the other way around?
The tank was moving this way:
Image
AFAIK the street crossing is correct, but the "236" came and went from and to different direction.
It came from Karjalankatu (Leningradski prospekt) (that is from railway station - Tammisuo direction) and was turning slightly right towards Torkkelinkatu (Prospekt Lenina):
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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Art » 21 Aug 2013 20:05

Juha Tompuri wrote: AFAIK the street crossing is correct, but the "236" came and went from and to different direction.
It came from Karjalankatu (Leningradski prospekt) (that is from railway station - Tammisuo direction) and was turning slightly right towards Torkkelinkatu (Prospekt Lenina):
Yes, right.

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Juha Tompuri » 21 Aug 2013 20:08

Juha Tompuri wrote: Perhaps "236" not going in to battle, but coming from it?
Or the other way around?

Image
Image
The IS-2's queuing (to the opposite direction the "236" came from) to the front or to railway transport away from Viipuri/Vyborg?
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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Art » 21 Aug 2013 20:45

Juha Tompuri wrote:The IS-2's queuing (to the opposite direction the "236" came from) to the front or to railway transport away from Viipuri/Vyborg?
By the way this photo once again confirms anarchy and confusion in tactical numbers of the 27 Guards Tank Regiment, to which the tank apparently belonged.

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Juha Tompuri » 22 Aug 2013 07:10

Some other relevant info & photos at an older thread:
Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Juha Tompuri » 22 Aug 2013 18:54

Image A BA-10 at Viipuri/Vyborg 1944
http://army.lv/?s=2587&id=0&c=0&p=2

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Mangrove » 22 Aug 2013 20:19

Juha Tompuri wrote:A BA-10 at Viipuri/Vyborg 1944
Photographed at the same crossroad of Torkkelinkatu and Mannerheiminkatu/Karjalankatu as the other photographs on this thread. Notice the tramways leading to four different directions, the aforementioned crossroad was the only such place in Viipuri.

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Esa Muikku » 22 Aug 2013 21:21

Off topic because it is not Soviet armour but at the very same crossing a couple of days before: SA-kuva 155088.

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Re: Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer

Post by Esa Muikku » 22 Aug 2013 21:37

I would not make any conclusions based on tanks' driving directions in Viipuri. We don't know for sure when the photos were taken (might be taken when the units were withdrawn and collected to Viipuri to wait for transport towards Baltic). Also, after arrival in the city they might have been driving here and there to look for food, fuel or ammo supply points, moving to their designated camping areas,...

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