The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

[Sid Guttridge]

Some 12 years ago I posted the following on another site. I thought it might be of general interest here:

The later Year Groups were first called up on the following dates:

1916 - 1/10/37
1917 - 1/10/38
1918 - 26/8/39
1919 - 26/8/39
1920 - 1/10/40
1921 - 1/2/41
1922 - 5/9/41
1923 - 15/4/42
1924 - 15/10/42
1925 - ?/5/43
1926 - ?/12/43
1927 - ?/7/44
1928 - End 1944
1929 - End March 1945.

Thus the Class of 1916 seems to have been 21 when called up, but the class of 1929 was called up at the age of 16.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Little Bear]

Hi Sid,

I'm a new member who has just found this site. The amount of information on all the threads is simply mind boggling.

Your list seems accurate from what I know.

The only point I could add to it from a family source (my late father) is that Volksdeutsche from Budapest, Hungary were called up (the small green piece of paper) in a 1924-1925-1926 "bundle" in the summer of '43. So 17, 18 and 19 year olds respectively. I read somewhere that Hitler sent the request through when the outcome of The Battle of Kursk was not looking favourable. They were told to report at the train station Nyugati pályaudvar at 06:00 the following morning.

Apparently he had a bit of a verbal scrap with his old man (the night before) who was a veteran from both Przemysl and the Dolomites in WW1.... something along the lines of my Grandad saying "don't volunteer for anything, son..." and my 18 y.o. father replying with "... war is different these days, father... it's all tanks and big guns, not horses & sticks & knives!.." (or something like that)

Anyway, all this discussion had led Granny to tears ("you damn men and your wars!!") but they had all kissed and made up early the next morning.

The train (cattle cars strewn with hay) headed north towards Silesia. The young men all thought they were heading for France. They were told they would have 8 weeks? training; which turned out to be 3 or 4 weeks only... if that. It was at Neuhammer (current day Świętoszów).
The lads knew they were not heading west and this was confirmed when they saw the Cyrillic script on the train station names. They were fresh cannon fodder unfortunately.

I was wondering whether you could help me or point me in the right direction on these boards? I would like to identify, once and for all, the specific Army Corps my father served in - from approximately November 27, 1943 to May 8, 1945.

Since Dad was pretty poor when it came to providing consistent facts (especially geography and numbers) over the years... and my brother and myself are both inquisitive people when it comes to our family history. For the last 40 or so years we would get slightly different or incoherent answers. Not sure if my father was trying to hide facts (probably not - he was a good honest man; and he was always telling us how "awful War was" seeing practically all of his mates dies) and he obviously had huge lifelong mental and physical scars (wounded 3 times) there from being a 18 y.o. back then.

He always maintained that he was, in fact, attached to the 4th Pz Armee (Armoured Division) and first saw action around the Dneiper Bend. This would have been around Nov. 27, 1943, if I remember correctly. I think he had some very close calls there (as you would) and this first experience must have affected him greatly. He reckoned that an exploding shell, which killed most of his tank crew, left him severely concussed with permanently damaged hearing. Luckily for him, he was ordered off the vehicle just prior to the direct hit and told to walk alongside for a while; he managed to dive into a roadside ditch - a real Godsend.

I believe that throughout '44 they were constantly being reorganised and reattached to various Groups. From AG South, to AG North Ukraine... and eventually to AG A towards the end of the year. When I asked him what was the Panzer Corps he was in... I always got different (confusing) replies. A recent business associate (early 2000s) of his who was high up in the Australian Army in Vietnam told me "A was in the XXIV Panzer Corps" but I'm pretty sure I was told XLVIII or XXXXVIII Panzer Corps at one time earlier on.

I have a feeling he was involved in some very serious action around Lvov-Sandomierz and also throughout southern Poland on the way to the border of Germany. He told me: "everyone was scared of everyone else. We didn't know who was who amidst all the action". (I think they also crossed/arrived at the Oder on the 27th... a number which keeps cropping up) He recounted that he saw what appeared to be a massive thrust towards their positions (1st Belorussian Front and 1st Ukrainian Front executing the major pincer) but incredibly, it arced around in front of them (like somemassive hoarde of wilderbeast!) and headed in a nor-westerly direction towards Berlin.The older "Vets" were sh!tting themselves... there were a few suicides and knives at each other's throats apparently. The younger ones were less shaky in comparison... but were still sh!t scared to say the least.

They somehow managed to withdraw into northern Bavaria (skirting the northern border of Czechoslovakia) in the direction of Regensburg... swam yet another river (the Danube... he showed me the spot a few km south-west of the town near Riegling/Sinzing on New Year's Day 1979) after throwing the arms into it. The SS, for once, let the regular Army cross first. Many men were drowned or crushed by ice flows (the thaw had begun) The SS stayed behind and were ploughed into the earth... or captured by the pursuing Russians.

What was left of them surrendered to elements of the US 3rd Army (a Hawaiian Regiment?) and they were sent to P.O.W. camp near Nurnberg and later at Flak Kasserne Zirndorf - which I visited with him in July 2005. The Americans renamed it Pinder Barracks and it was only relieved in 1999.

Try as I might - I simply cannot identify which Army Corps my Dad was tied up with. Any detailed information would be greatly appreciated.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Little Bear,

As I understand it, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia came to agreements with Germany in early 1943 for the Waffen-SS to conscript their local Volksdeutsch youth. This was because voluntary enlistment in the Waffen-SS by Volksdeutsch had been disappointing in earlier years. I think the 16th and 17th W-SS Divisions were particular beneficiaries.

I do not know if they could opt for the German Army, Navy and Air Force.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Little Bear]

Thanks Sid,

I remember my father telling me he was "offered" Army, Navy or Air Force.
He replied Air Force.

"Right,... the Army then it is..." was the reply he got.

[Sid Guttridge]

Like my grandfather.

He was asked on a form in 1916 which arm of service he would prefer to join.

He wrote down "Anything that has nothing to do with horses". He was sent to the Royal Artillery, where he had to look after three!

All army bureaucrats seem to have a similar sense of humour.

Cheers,

Sid.

[CNE503]

Sid,

A question: unless I'm wrong, the first Germany draftees of the Nazi era were called up on November 1935. What year groups were called up in 1935 and 1936?

Cheers,

CNE503

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi

This link, (http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/ ... -h-germany) gives the first of the 1914 Class as being called up in October, presumably of 1935.

This presumably means the 1915 Class was called up in October 1936, which conforms with the list in my first post, that gives the 1916 Class as being called up on 1/10/37.

The years before the 1914 Class were known as the "White Years", apparently because on German staff bar charts of trained manpower they appeared as almost completely blank on the paper.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Sid Guttridge]

Try http://www.greatwar.com/scripts/openExtra.asp?extra=10 for some information on conscription in WWI. By early 1918 call ups of the class due in 1920 were taking place 2.5 years early.

Thus Germany in 1935 had some fifteen "White Years" of men (1921-1934?) who generally had no military training.

The youngest men of the WWI conscription era were also out of training and condition. When a reserve division was mobilized in Munich during the Anschluss with Austria in 1938, it was found that most reservists could not fit into the new uniforms designed for fit, young, post-1935 conscripts.

Cheers,

Sid.

[CNE503]

Thanks a lot Sid!

Cheers,

CNE503

[kaiser454]

My Oppa Franz Kaiser was drafted from Groß Bečkerek, Banat. Today called Zrenjanin. I have a photo of him in Africa taken 1 June 1941. My Oppa was born in 1924. His brothers were also drafted from his home town and was were also sent to war. Is it possible to find out which army they were drafted to from the place they were drafted from and year they were born? The brothers were born, 1926, 1928 & all drafted from Groß Bečkerek (Zrenjanin) thanks

[GregSingh]

Is it possible to find out which army they were drafted to from the place they were drafted from

That information should be in the Soldbuch. If you don't have any paper documents, please read history1's reply in the 'German POWs units' topic:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 2#p1936132

[Reichskriegsgericht]

My Oppa Franz Kaiser was drafted from Groß Bečkerek, Banat. Today called Zrenjanin. I have a photo of him in Africa taken 1 June 1941. My Oppa was born in 1924.

1. Gross-Betschkerek was in Yugoslavia and occupied by german troops in April 1941. It is therefore impossible for Franz Kaiser to be in North Africa as a fully trained soldier in June 1941.

2. Serbia was under military administration and not part of Germany. The Germans there were no german citizens and not liable to conscription under german military law. This only changed later in the war when Himmler ordered the ethnic Germans to be called up for service in the Waffen-SS because there were not enough volunteers. The Germans in the Banat were usually in the 'Prinz Eugen' Division. And there were no Waffen-SS units in North Africa.

3. Not even in Germany was the class of 1924 drafted in 1941. They usually were in the Reichsarbeitsdienst from March 1942 on and then drafted, starting Mid October 1942.

The story of your Opa doesn't fit the facts. Where did you get your information from? Did you write to the WASt for information about his military service?

https://www.dd-wast.de/en/home.html

[kaiser454]

Hi and thanks for replying!
I have a tin of family photos. I am trying to figure out who are in the photos as my family kept it all secret. They have all died. At 39 years old, I am the oldest living Kaiser in my family. I have a couple of photos of my Oppa taken in Africa. On the back of the photo it is written 1st June 1941(I will upload pics) Josef Specht was from Kešinci. They were in the same division together. I was told by my dad that my Oppa Franz was in the Deutsche Afrikakorps and my Oppa and Josef were POW in Egypt. They became close friends during their time in Africa. Not much more detail than that. These photos are personal family photos that I have. I hope they provide some insight to finding out which division and when he was drafted. I have not found any paperwork on the military so far. I have my Oppa's original Birth/baptism, marriage and death certificates.

[Reichskriegsgericht]

Hi Kaiser454,

putting up a photo would be nice. However, you will probably get a lot of more reliable information of you write to the WASt. Unfortunately a takes up to a year to get an answer.

My brother's wife was curious her two grandfathers and had a bunch of photos of one grandfather. You usually can't tell much just from the photos without any informational background. For example she believed her grandfather was in the SS because the photos show him in the black uniform with a death head from the Panzertruppe (a common mistake).

[kaiser454]

I have discovered more information. From Groß Betschkerek these are the family members who went war.

*Nikolaus Kaiser born 1895 was in Argentina 1936 (Great Grandfather)

*Johann Gangl born 1915 was in SS and died in Russia
*Leopold Gangl born 1922 was in SS
*Franz Kaiser born 1924 was in Deutsche Afrikakorps - in Afrika June 1941(my grandfather)
* Stephan Kaiser born 1926 was in SS
Along with photos I have, Elisabeth, younger sister to Johann, Leopold, Franz, and Stephan confirmed this. Their mothet died Nov 1944. She and 2 young brothers were parent less as there father Nikolaus was at war and the children were taken to camp Gakovo.