Squad level firepower comparisons

[Gary Kennedy]

I was kindly gifted the KStN from the late war period for the German Para Bn, after trying to make sense of the summary details from the US intelligence handbook. Even then weapons issue is fuzzy to say the least.

The May44 Squad was 10 men, 2 NCOs, 4 riflemen and 4 LMG numbers. Weapons are shown on a separate section of the table, no clue being given as to who was even intended to carry what. The Platoon had 6 LMGs and 3 sniper rifles, so realistically 2 LMGs and 1 scoped rifle per Squad. After that best guess is at least 2 MPs per Squad (9 in the Pl) and 4 rifles. The two LMG teams would look to have been gunner and asst in each, all with pistols.

Everyone wants to know about FG42 issue, and the table doesn't say a thing other than a note along the lines of 'FG (rifles) will be replaced by rifles and machine pistols dependent upon availability'. I thought I had a full translation somewhere but don't seem to, but that's the gist I think.

Also have a look at Christoph's site re the Brandenburg Para Coy, which at least gives individual weapons allocation, though for a specialist unit.

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn26211feb44.htm

We know they had Stg44 for the Ardennes but goodness only knows on the numbers.

Gary

[Cult Icon]

The book "Hedgerow Hell" has information on various Korps units for II FJ Korps in Normandy- among these were a unique unit (recon) that had vehicles and significant amounts of FJ 42 rifles and mines.

[Brady]

So~ 2 MP's (MP 40's)*, 1 Sniper, 2 LMG's (4 pistoles, 2 men per team)**,3 rifles = 10 men

* So do we see the Stg 44 replacing a MP 40 or do we see it replacing a rifle if available ?

** It makes since to me that the Gunner would have a pistole, but why would the assistant have one, I know he probably had the spare barrels and ammo, so I see the weight of a rifle might be a bit much.


FG 42, It would not be unreasonable then to assume that each squad might have one FG 42, in leu of a rifle? It is my understanding that the FG 42 was intended to replace the rifle, but that numbers produced of course did not support that happening

Rifle Grenade, would not at least one member of the squad have a rifle grenade launcher ?

[Gary Kennedy]

Yes, it does actually list grenade launchers for a change, six in the Pl so unless they were doing something very odd I'd have to say two per Squad.

Early war it was generally a pistol for both gunner and asst in LMG teams in pretty much all types of German Squad I can think of. It was later on the No.2 switched to a rifle, roughly in line with the officially recognised reductions in Squad size seen during 1943.

Re the FG42, I've seen it put both ways, with them either being allocated out as a one or two per Squad, or as noted above highly concentrated in just a few Platoons. This is the note in the KStN table re weapons I mentioned -

Bei Ausstattung mit dem Fallschirm-Jägergewehr kommen die Gewehre und Maschine Pistolen in Fortfall.

I think that translates as roughly - "when equipped with the FG rifle the rifles and machine pistols are deleted".

I've not seen any other Fallschirmjager tables so don't know what the Recce units looked like.

Gary

[yantaylor]

I have this for a Fallschirmjager company circa 1944;

https://www.quartermastersection.com/ge ... OMPANY1944

Regards
Yan.

[Brady]

Bei Ausstattung mit dem Fallschirm-Jägergewehr kommen die Gewehre und Maschine Pistolen in Fortfall.

I think that translates as roughly - "when equipped with the FG rifle the rifles and machine pistols are deleted".



Gary

So, In Leu of, in short ? And TY again

[Brady]

Kampfpistole, I remember reading about the fighting on leros, and the FJ used there Kampfpistole to mark targets for the Stukas, amongst other things.


Interesting to see it listed

[Brady]

This is interesting: I had No idea the British paras used the M1 carbine, it not referenced above at all, I know there were a hand full of American CAS men that deployed with the British(at Arnhem), but his uniform looks very British.

[LineDoggie]

This is interesting: I had No idea the British paras used the M1 carbine, it not referenced above at all, I know there were a hand full of American CAS men that deployed with the British(at Arnhem), but his uniform looks very British.

Some 25,362 M1 and M1A1 Carbines were lend lease to the UK. this doesnt take into account some Burma based units which bartered for them OR the 174,404 given/loaned/sold between oct 1950- 1963 to the UK

Britain even adopted the .30 carbine ammo as the "Cartridge S.A. Ball .30 inch Carbine Mark 1z in 1954 and made it themselves when WW2 US stocks ran low.

M1 Carbines were extensively used in the Malayan campaign

[Brady]

Anyone know how they were allocated at Arnhem ?,the M1 carbine ?

[Gary Kennedy]

Short answer, no, because they were not an official allocation. The picture always causes a buzz because you've got a British airborne soldier with a US weapon which was not a British issue item. He's variously described as being part of Divisional HQ or one of the Glider Pilot Regiment operating in his secondary role. A quick link here that at least offers a date and location, though the suggestion of the source of the weapon is I think just a suggestion;

https://www.battlefieldhistorian.com/ar ... 009020.asp

Given the incredible amount of scrutiny that's been applied to every facet of Arnhem, I don't think anyone has come up with anything other on M1 carbines than that single image. By contrast, in one of the most well known British infantryman memoirs, 18 Platoon by the late Sidney Jary, the author acquired a US .45-cal pistol, which he carried through Normandy to late 1944ish. It was stolen while he was out of the line, something he blamed on another British unit. Yet no suggestion has been drawn that all British Platoon commanders carried a .45 automatic rather than a .38 revolver ;>

Gary

[Brady]

Thanks again, fascinating

[yantaylor]

Didn't the royal marine commandos use M1 Rifles for a time?
I am sure that I read that they complained when they were told to hand them in and then issued with SMLEs.

Yan.

[Gary Kennedy]

Yes, it's generally cited as being No.6 Commando for their role in the Torch landings, and I have seen it extended to No.1 Commando in the Far East. I had a look back on a couple of threads on another forum and there was no definitive conclusion as to whether No.6 Cdo had M1 rifles for a spell and handed them in after they left the Med, or whether they somehow kept them in Northwest Europe.

Gary

[yantaylor]

Hello Gary, did you receive my message concerning a link to your site?
I have recently set up a links section and added Bayonet Strength.

Yan.