"Lucky" Fluckey and USS BARB.

[Plain Old Dave]

First use of rockets from a submarine.

Only Allied forces to actually invade the Japanese Home Islands during WW2.

The world's speed record for a surfaced submarine, 23.5 knots.

Admiral Eugene Fluckey was probably the most intellectual and innovative submarine commander of the Second World War. During the seven war patrols she conducted in the Pacific between March 1944-August 1945, Barb is officially credited with sinking 17 enemy vessels totaling 96,628 tons, This despite probably the most UNreliable submarine torpedoes of any combatant. His book, Thunder Below, as well as other Submarine Force memoirs, is full of dud torpedoes, circular running torpedoes, and those that just passed under the target, exploding harmlessly well past. It's no exaggeration to say the USN had the worst torpedoes of the war, but they still annihilated the Japanese merchant marine and Navy.

[genstab]

Interestingly, the Kriegsmarine also had torpedo reliability problems- both failure to explode even when they could be heard hitting a ship and running way too deep, but got them corrected earlier in the war. In June 1940 Doenitz ordered that contact pistols rather than magnetic be used until the problem was corrected. New magnetic pistols were issued with torpedoes in December 1942, about the same time the problem of torpedoes running too deep was solved. I think some high engineer officer got shot.

Unfortunately for the German war effort, the day of the U-boat in the Atlantic was over in May 1943 when Allied hunter-killer groups using aircraft flown from escort carriers closed the mid-Atlantic gap and U-boat losses got so high Doenitz pulled them from the Atlantic.

Best,
Bill

[Plain Old Dave]

I think some high engineer officer got shot.

The American issue had high level attention. Admiral Lockwood, Commander, Submarine Forces Pacific Fleet, and Admiral Nimitz, Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet, both were involved yet the Bureau of Ordinance insisted sub commanders were improperly using torpedoes. Nimitz, a submarine officer who assumed command as CINCPAC on the deck of a fleet submarine at Pearl Harbor, later became Chief of Naval Operations.

[Takao]

Actually, by the time Fluckey took his first command, USS Barb, the US torpedo problems had already been fixed.

[Plain Old Dave]

That's not what he said. The 11th and 12th war patrols were marked by defective torpedoes.

[Takao]

That's not what he said. The 11th and 12th war patrols were marked by defective torpedoes.

Yes, that is what he said. See here:
https://issuu.com/hnsa/docs/ss-220_barb_part2

Your statement concerning the 11th War Patrol of the USS Barb is absolutely fictitious! During the 11th War Patrol, the Barb fired 24 torpedoes for 20 hits.

During the 12th war patrol, the Barb did have a run of bad luck with their Mark 18 Mod 2 torpedoes. However, some of the misses were attributed to errors in speed estimates, while others were attributed to the Mark 18 running too deep. Still, Fluckey concludes his 12th war patrol report torpedo analysis with this closing line

Albeit, with three very successful past runs using MK18 torpedoes, our faith is not shaken and we will take them again.

"Three very successful past runs"...Hardly sounds like the MK18s were defective as a whole, although the Barb probably did get a bad batch on her 12th war patrol.

Further, the much maligned torpedoes were the Mark 14s used earlier in the war.

[Plain Old Dave]

What about the Jap destroyer BARB went 0/6 on?

[ROLAND1369]

I am confused by the statement of him holding the world speed record on a surfaced submarine as 23.5 knots. This might be a record for diesel boats, however the WW i British K class submarines had a speed of 25 knots as a designed speed. Admitly they were steam turbine powered on the surface.

[Terry Duncan]

The K class were indeed the fastest service submarines when surfaced until fairly late as far as I am aware, but less sure about prototypes and test-bed subs.

[Plain Old Dave]

Re: 23.5 knots. We had a WW2 Subvet in our USSVI Base. He was on the Billfish during the 12+ hour depth charging chronicled in Don Keith's War Beneath The Waves, but that's another story. The copy of Thunder Below I read was his, left as a bequest to the Base library. His handwritten note said the MoMM (Motor Machinists Mate, took care of the diesels) had to force a bypass of the governor to make 23.5 knots. He was the Chief MoMM on the Billfish.

This forum's obsession with NOT letting a good story about tremendous odds being overcome just be inspirational is becoming depressingly predictable. They even made a movie about the Medal of Honor citation.

[Terry Duncan]

Claims like this are all too common, there are infamous Iowa can do 35kts - 40kts claims ad infinitum, and all down to trying to convert kts into mph or kph and then using the resulting figure as kts again. Suffice to say no Iowa class ship ever made 33kts though they did get close. That an engineer says something happened doesn't make it true, indeed he would hardly have been in a position to measure the speed, at best only being able to record the rpm on the screws. It is not so much that people wish to spoil a story, they want the truth and not speculation or myths. Either way, 23.5kts is not the fastest speed for a submarine as already pointed out.

[Takao]

Re: 23.5 knots. We had a WW2 Subvet in our USSVI Base. He was on the Billfish during the 12+ hour depth charging chronicled in Don Keith's War Beneath The Waves, but that's another story. The copy of Thunder Below I read was his, left as a bequest to the Base library. His handwritten note said the MoMM (Motor Machinists Mate, took care of the diesels) had to force a bypass of the governor to make 23.5 knots. He was the Chief MoMM on the Billfish.

Meh, some of the larger Japanese I-Boat classes were listed as having a maximum of 23.5 knots, and some trialed slightly faster...And that was without bypassing a governor or running at 150%.

This forum's obsession with NOT letting a good story about tremendous odds being overcome just be inspirational is becoming depressingly predictable.

By using false or misleading material and making false or misleading claims, only serves to cheapen what actually occurred. Further, if one part of the story is false, who is to say that the rest of the story is really true, thus, the story become less inspirational. Finally, the story of the USS Barb needs none of this additional bluff and bluster...It stands just fine on it's own merits.

They even made a movie about the Medal of Honor citation.

No major movies that I know of...Although, there were three TV shows.

Navy Log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwvPNtp3bJY

The Silent Service
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywf8iwmCyMQ

Smithsonian Channel: Hell Below(S2E2) Sabotage Submarine
https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/show ... 08/3461468