Internal migration in an Intermarium

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Futurist
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Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by Futurist » 16 Oct 2018 22:39

This thread is cross-posted from another section of this forum:

Had an Intermarium union successfully been created in Eastern Europe after the end of World War I, what would internal migration there have looked like? :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium

To elaborate on what I mean, here is a map of domestic migration for the U.S.:

Image

U.S. states such as Florida and Nevada have much more people moving there from other parts of the U.S. than leaving them to settle in other parts of the U.S. In contrast, California, New York, and Illinois have much more people leaving them to settle in other parts of the U.S. than moving there from other parts of the U.S.

Anyway, which parts of an Intermarium would have had the most positive domestic migration balance and the most negative domestic migration balance?

Any thoughts on this?

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by wm » 17 Oct 2018 12:55

There would be none, with millions of their own unemployed no sane government would allow trans-border migration.

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by Futurist » 17 Oct 2018 21:17

wm wrote:
17 Oct 2018 12:55
There would be none, with millions of their own unemployed no sane government would allow trans-border migration.
What about after several decades?

Also, why do European countries allow trans-border migration nowadays when some of their own citizens are unemployed?

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RE: Internal Migration In An Intermarium - (Well Sort Of But Not Really).

Post by Robert Rojas » 17 Oct 2018 23:39

Greetings to both brother Futurist and the community as a whole. Howdy Futurist (or Alvin Toffler if you so prefer)! Well sir, in respect to your introductory posting of Wednesday - October 17, 2018 - 12:17pm, old yours truly was more than a bit curios if this creation of yours might be better suited for both the likes of a Doctor of Philosophy in Demography and a Juris Doctor in International Law. In terms of niche topical interests, old Uncle Bob rather suspects (rightly OR wrongly) that you are clearly out of touch with the general readership of the WHAT IF section of the forum. Now, you did ask for ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS and there it is in all of its glory! Well, that's my initial two Yankee cents worth on this leading exercise into God knows where - at least for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day down in your corner of the Southland that what was once our Golden State of California.

Best Regards From The Greater San Francisco Bay Area,
Uncle Bob :idea: :roll: :|
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by wm » 18 Oct 2018 00:15

Futurist wrote:
17 Oct 2018 21:17
Also, why do European countries allow trans-border migration nowadays when some of their own citizens are unemployed?
There are lots of jobs in Germany (they say it's over a million vacancies today), Norway, and the smaller countries. In Britain, the natives literally refuse to work hard.
Intermarium even after several decades wouldn't be prosperous enough to "enjoy" labor shortages.
Even today the labor shortages in Poland are results of the opportunities in Germany/Britain.

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by Futurist » 18 Oct 2018 01:09

wm wrote:
18 Oct 2018 00:15
Futurist wrote:
17 Oct 2018 21:17
Also, why do European countries allow trans-border migration nowadays when some of their own citizens are unemployed?
There are lots of jobs in Germany (they say it's over a million vacancies today), Norway, and the smaller countries. In Britain, the natives literally refuse to work hard.
Intermarium even after several decades wouldn't be prosperous enough to "enjoy" labor shortages.
Even today the labor shortages in Poland are results of the opportunities in Germany/Britain.
Do Italy and Spain have job shortages today? After all, these two countries would probably be the most likely trajectory for Poland's economic growth in the absence of Communism.

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by wm » 18 Oct 2018 09:29

In both countries unemployment remains high, youth unemployment averaged 35%.

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by Futurist » 29 Oct 2018 00:32

wm wrote:
18 Oct 2018 09:29
In both countries unemployment remains high, youth unemployment averaged 35%.
And yet Spain still got a lot of immigrants over the last 40 years.

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by wm » 29 Oct 2018 15:50

Spain is the only EU country bordering Africa so it's relatively easy to get there - illegally of course.

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by Futurist » 29 Oct 2018 22:29

wm wrote:
29 Oct 2018 15:50
Spain is the only EU country bordering Africa so it's relatively easy to get there - illegally of course.
That might be true, but Spain also got a lot of legal immigrants from both Latin America and Eastern Europe.

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by Futurist » 29 Oct 2018 22:32


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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by wm » 11 Nov 2018 05:38

From Latin America because they are citizens of the former Spanish empire. From Eastern Europe because of the EU.
There was a period of prosperity and optimism in Spain, some thought it would last forever. The majority of the immigrants arrived during that period and actually were welcomed with open arms.

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by Futurist » 25 Nov 2018 00:10

wm wrote:
11 Nov 2018 05:38
From Latin America because they are citizens of the former Spanish empire. From Eastern Europe because of the EU.
There was a period of prosperity and optimism in Spain, some thought it would last forever. The majority of the immigrants arrived during that period and actually were welcomed with open arms.
Are you suggesting that, without Communism, Poland would have been incapable of likewise having a period of prosperity and optimism?

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by Futurist » 05 Jan 2019 22:24

Hey wm,

I have an additional question for you but don't want to make a separate thread: Do you think that a lot of Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Lithuanians would have moved to Polish cities during the 20th century in search of a better life had Poland not been invaded and dismembered by its neighbors beforehand?

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Re: Internal migration in an Intermarium

Post by wm » 06 Jan 2019 00:38

Of course they would, everybody wants a better life and in rural areas there was no future for most of them.

There was a limited period of optimism and even more limited prosperity at the end of the thirties but as the Polish poet wrote there were many unsettled scores in Poland and many people especially the opposition was hell-bent on settling some of them.
So who knows, I don't think is possible to predict what would have happened it's all pure tasseography, especially that Polish economic prosperity depended on worldwide prosperity.

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