Unknow gun

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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Grzesio
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Grzesio » 28 Nov 2018 15:09

About "bunkerpak" - are you sure about the special version? Did not they wrote "bunkerpak" becouse of use of the gun against the bunkers?
The gun is commonly called the 8,8 cm Bunkerflak or 8,8 cm Bunkerpak on the internet, while Wolfgang Fleischer names it as the 8,8 cm Pak L/56 in his book on German AT guns.

zavety
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by zavety » 29 Nov 2018 04:33

vrog wrote:
27 Nov 2018 21:48
Hallo, please, can somebody help with ID this gun?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/03/6c/dd ... ebfb9e.jpg

i know, bad photo, bud friend want to build scale-model diorama based on photo
Japanese 120 mm marine anti-aircraft gun type 10.

vrog
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by vrog » 29 Nov 2018 07:28

Grzesio wrote:
28 Nov 2018 15:09
The gun is commonly called the 8,8 cm Bunkerflak or 8,8 cm Bunkerpak on the internet, while Wolfgang Fleischer names it as the 8,8 cm Pak L/56 in his book on German AT guns.
I dont think that is right. most of german gun have united names system: 1st: caliber of gun in "cm", 2nd: category of gun (pak, flak, sk, fh...) and 3rd type/mark of gun.
And because 8,8cm "bunkerpak" 18 lost his ability to shoot againist aircraft - he loose anti-aircraft targetig sysem (sights in english?) and many more details was changed againist clasical 8,8 flak 18 - so it IS a PAK - panzerabwehrkanone - antitank gun. but againist bunkers? :D ... these guns was not made a lot of. only a feew units have these beasts. Units which was prepared for belgium and france bunkers.

AND post by zavety - thank you alot of! You are great.

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schwarzermai
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by schwarzermai » 29 Nov 2018 08:34

the correct name was

8,8 cm Flak 18 mit Panzerschutzschild auf Sonderanhänger 201 (mot.Z.)

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=112552&start=195#p2028003

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Grzesio
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Grzesio » 29 Nov 2018 09:07

I dont think that is right.
I think so too, and I always considered the Bunkerflak or Bunkerpak (with a calibre or without) as just nicknames, contemporary or not.
most of german gun have united names system: 1st: caliber of gun in "cm", 2nd: category of gun (pak, flak, sk, fh...) and 3rd type/mark of gun.
Do you really think so? :) Many very popular guns were actually designated without the calibre or type, even if they are known under theoretical "complete" designations now.
https://translate.google.pl/translate?s ... atkow.html
(Sorry for automatic google translation)

vrog
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by vrog » 29 Nov 2018 09:43

Grzesio wrote:
29 Nov 2018 09:07
Do you really think so? :) Many very popular guns were actually designated without the calibre or type, even if they are known under theoretical "complete" designations now.
https://translate.google.pl/translate?s ... atkow.html
(Sorry for automatic google translation)
Oh, realy? You totaly destroy my world... im so sad now. :D

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Grzesio
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Grzesio » 29 Nov 2018 10:43

I was surprised too... What's more, I've even found the 5 cm Pak 38 called the Pak 38 (without the calibre) in an official Merkblatt.

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Manuferey
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Manuferey » 30 Nov 2018 01:48

schwarzermai wrote:
29 Nov 2018 08:34
the correct name was

8,8 cm Flak 18 mit Panzerschutzschild auf Sonderanhänger 201 (mot.Z.)

Uwe
Thank you, Uwe.

Was it then the first 8,8 cm Flak version to be fitted with a shield ("Panzerschutzschild") then? I have been wondering for a while about it.

Emmanuel

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schwarzermai
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by schwarzermai » 02 Dec 2018 09:40

Hello Emmanuel, i think so - here the informations from my book:

- 31.8.1938 – O.K.H. /A.H.A./In 4 – 8,8 cm Flakzüge
- 1.) Die für besondere Aufgaben des Heeres aufgestellten 8,8 cm Flakzüge werden wie folgt zugeteilt
- 2 Züge der Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung 3 (Wehrkreis III)
- 4 Züge der Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung 8 (Wehrkreis VIII)
- 2 Züge der Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung 18 (Wehrkreis VIII)
- 4 Züge der Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung 28 (Wehrkreis VIII)
- 5 Züge der Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung 10 (Wehrkreis XIII)
- 2 Züge der Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung der 44. Infanterie-Division (Wehrkreis XVII)
- 2 Züge der Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung der 2. Panzer-Division
- 2.) Gerät und Personal, durch Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe zur Verfügung gestellt, werden zunächst auf einem Truppenübungsplatz zusammengezogen, um im Erdbeschuss ausgebildet zu werden.

- 3.9.1938 – O.K.H. /A.H.A./In 4 – Gerät- und Personalverteilung der 8,8 cm Flakzüge
- 1.) Als Geschütze für die aufzustellenden Flakzüge sind von der Luftwaffe 8,8 cm Flak 18 zur Verfügung gestellt. Sie werden entweder angehängt an 8 t Zugkraftwagen oder aufgesetzt auf 12 t Zugkraftwagen. Die Geschütze stehen ab 15.9.1939 nacheinander bei den Firmen, die mit der Änderung beauftragt sind, abrufbereit. 1 – 2 Geschütze mit Zugkraftwagen stehen ab 15.9.1938 zum Ausbildungslehrgang in Jüterbog zur Verfügung.
- 2.) Als Bedienpersonal werden von der Luftwaffe insgesamt 24 Offiziere, 108 Unteroffiziere und 660 Mannschaften zur Verfügung gestellt.
- A.) Hiervon werden 24 Offiziere, 7 Unteroffiziere und 21 Mannschaften am 15.9.1938 in Jüterbog zum Ausbildungslehrgang kommandiert.

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=112552&start=195#p2028003

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Manuferey
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Manuferey » 02 Dec 2018 15:41

Thank you, Uwe,

I've realized that we discussed the topic of the "Schutzschild" here but there were still a few open questions:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=224338

Emmanuel

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schwarzermai
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by schwarzermai » 02 Dec 2018 18:22

Emmanuel,

i think there is a difference between "Schutzschild" and "Panzerschutzschild" because of the use case of the Flak itself.
Schutzschild against indirect weapons like bombfragments and Panzerschutzschild is against direct hits from heavy MG or Tankgun.

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=112552&start=195#p2028003

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

forttravel
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by forttravel » 02 Dec 2018 22:47

forttravel wrote:
27 Nov 2018 23:08
Poland 1939, 88 mm?
Picture I posted is taken considering place names: Milovka (Milówka) and Myslenice (Myślenice) right after break of Węgierska Górka fortified strongpoint of Polish army by German 7th (Bavarian) Infantry Division.

whitesharkseeker
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by whitesharkseeker » 08 Dec 2018 06:38

That's a Japanese naval 12cm gun. I accompanied the driver of the "Lady Luck" (D-12) back to Peleliu in 2004 and have the full story, not the made up version of how the amphib tank rammed the gun. Weight just collapsed side of gun pit. Simple as that. Gun crew long dead.

Cheers, Eric

Sturm78
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Sturm78 » 12 Dec 2018 20:24

Hi all,

I am not sure about these artillery pieces: 105mm Schneider Mle 1934 howitzers ??

Image from Ebay
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Re: Unknow gun

Post by Sturm78 » 17 Dec 2018 23:19

Hi all,

Any idea about this ? Some type of recoiless gun ?? :?

Image from the net
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