Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Peasant
Member
Posts: 798
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 18:21
Location: Ukraine

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#16

Post by Peasant » 07 Jan 2019, 15:31

Some great info on the matter, something I will sort through at the latter date: http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Mi ... enetration
And: http://www.combinedfleet.com/okun_biz.htm

whelm
Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 20:30

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#17

Post by whelm » 08 Jan 2019, 05:34

https://imgur.com/a/f8jjYr5

2 pdr ap

1942 cast
1943 homo

apcbc

1943 cemented and homo

40mm

1943 homo


Peasant
Member
Posts: 798
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 18:21
Location: Ukraine

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#18

Post by Peasant » 08 Jan 2019, 23:19

whelm wrote:
08 Jan 2019, 05:34
snip
Thanks for the input whelm, this data will be a useful addition to this thread.

User avatar
Mobius
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 12 Jan 2005, 21:45
Location: Glendale, CA
Contact:

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#19

Post by Mobius » 09 Jan 2019, 00:51

whelm wrote:
08 Jan 2019, 05:34
https://imgur.com/a/f8jjYr5
2 pdr ap
Thanks, Boy those early graphs are primitive. CV/1 they tried to make the logrithmic range scales with a typewriter. Coverting to metric is confounding.

seppw
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 01:49
Location: Central Europe

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#20

Post by seppw » 09 Jan 2019, 14:57

Mobius wrote:
09 Jan 2019, 00:51
whelm wrote:
08 Jan 2019, 05:34
https://imgur.com/a/f8jjYr5
2 pdr ap
Thanks, Boy those early graphs are primitive. CV/1 they tried to make the logrithmic range scales with a typewriter. Coverting to metric is confounding.
What irritates me most about the graphs is the quality of scan. I can barely read anything on the last three images - it probably does not help that I don't own the best display.

User avatar
Mobius
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 12 Jan 2005, 21:45
Location: Glendale, CA
Contact:

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#21

Post by Mobius » 09 Jan 2019, 15:52

seppw wrote:
09 Jan 2019, 14:57
Mobius wrote:
09 Jan 2019, 00:51
whelm wrote:
08 Jan 2019, 05:34
https://imgur.com/a/f8jjYr5
2 pdr ap
Thanks, Boy those early graphs are primitive. CV/1 they tried to make the logrithmic range scales with a typewriter. Coverting to metric is confounding.
What irritates me most about the graphs is the quality of scan. I can barely read anything on the last three images - it probably does not help that I don't own the best display.
They must of been scanned long ago or the paper didn't age well.
Here is what a firing table of the 2 - pdr would look like if used the strike velocity of the Russian table. It is pretty close to the graph range numbers but they don't have tic marks so their positions are hard to judge.
2 pdr AP table-j.jpg
2 pdr AP table-j.jpg (40.66 KiB) Viewed 2153 times

User avatar
Mobius
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 12 Jan 2005, 21:45
Location: Glendale, CA
Contact:

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#22

Post by Mobius » 14 Jan 2019, 18:37

Whelm. do you also have CV/28? That is a revised CV/1 and will probably have a better range scale.

whelm
Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 20:30

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#23

Post by whelm » 15 Jan 2019, 00:29

Mobius wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 18:37
Whelm. do you also have CV/28? That is a revised CV/1 and will probably have a better range scale.
https://i.imgur.com/5aGYsgY.jpg

seppw
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 01:49
Location: Central Europe

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#24

Post by seppw » 15 Jan 2019, 00:54

whelm wrote:
15 Jan 2019, 00:29
Mobius wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 18:37
Whelm. do you also have CV/28? That is a revised CV/1 and will probably have a better range scale.
https://i.imgur.com/5aGYsgY.jpg
Thanks, whelm! This scan is of great quality. :D

User avatar
Mobius
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 12 Jan 2005, 21:45
Location: Glendale, CA
Contact:

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#25

Post by Mobius » 15 Jan 2019, 02:46

Thank whelm. CV/28 fixes problems with CV/1 ranges beyond 1000 yds.
I've put those CVs to use as wiki or Warthunder doesn't seem to want to use real historical data.
http://panzer-war.com/page61.html

whelm
Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 20:30

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#26

Post by whelm » 15 Jan 2019, 04:27

Mobius wrote:
15 Jan 2019, 02:46
Thank whelm. CV/28 fixes problems with CV/1 ranges beyond 1000 yds.
I've put those CVs to use as wiki or Warthunder doesn't seem to want to use real historical data.
http://panzer-war.com/page61.html
https://imgur.com/a/lGV4IFu

littlejohn if you are interested as well

User avatar
Mobius
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 12 Jan 2005, 21:45
Location: Glendale, CA
Contact:

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#27

Post by Mobius » 15 Jan 2019, 05:25

Thanks. Two marks of Littlejohn. Something I didn't know.

Peasant
Member
Posts: 798
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 18:21
Location: Ukraine

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#28

Post by Peasant » 16 Jan 2019, 05:37

This is pretty much exactly what I've been looking for: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a954860.pdf

Image

And also this is somewhat informative: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a954407.pdf

Peasant
Member
Posts: 798
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 18:21
Location: Ukraine

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#29

Post by Peasant » 17 Jan 2019, 19:55

Something I've realized while reading this: if in the live tests on proving grounds the researches are using specially made ammunition, it's likely to have better average quality than the mass produced ammo used in the field tests. Since the performance of FHA is heavily dependent on whether it can break the projectile or not, we have another source of error to account for.

critical mass
Member
Posts: 740
Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 15:53
Location: central Europe

Re: Non-homogeneous armor(NHA) in WW2

#30

Post by critical mass » 23 Jan 2019, 19:32

The Pz III FH plates are interesting because they happened to shatter early 2pdr capped A.P. as if they had no cap at all. It´s not a rare event (if the shot head is too hard, f.e.) but what is interesting here is that this happened without the plate beeing much inferior to a regular homogenious armor, indicating a good balance between toughness and hardening and little, adverse scaling effects.

Post Reply

Return to “The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section”