ljadw wrote: ↑
15 Jan 2019 15:14
Peter89 wrote: ↑
15 Jan 2019 14:06
It's so funny when Christianmunich argues that Soviet and Western sources are biased and stupid, and when ljdaw dismiss the Western sources as biased and arrogant, but the cherry on the cacke is when jesk quotes German diaries as source of alternate history.
I did not say that Western sources were arrogant and biased, but that winners were and are arrogant and biased : Galbraith came to Europe with the conviction that the American economic system was more efficient than the German one .
The arrival of the USSBS in a destroyed Europe was as the Ugly American 13 years later .
The ignorance of the USSBS about Germany was striking, it was also striking about Britain, France, etc , but its ignorance about Japan was much bigger: how many members of the USSBS had visited Germany and Japan, how many spoke/understood German/Japanese ?
And, about the Japanese oil stocks : the Japanese used tons, not barrels, the USSBS converted the tons in barrels ( always something hazardous ) and now we are discussing if the convert of barrels to tons again is correct, instead of searching if the USSBS used the correct Japanese ton figures, or if the Japanese figures were correct .During the period between the capitulation and the arrival of the Americans, the Japanese did not remain idle : they destroyed as many of the remaining documents ( a lot were already destroyed by US air attacks ),the result was that the USSBS was forced to use what the Japanese and the AAF had not destroyed . As we don't know what was lost, we can't be certain that what was remaining,was reliable .
USSBS was conducted to measure the effectiveness of the industrial bombing (a new type of warfare), not to map the German / Japanese economy in depth.
This distinction is important because you claim that they analyzed the German/Japanese economy wrongly, and every paperwork was in bad shape back then. Sure man, they finished writing the report in September 1945, how the paperwork supposed to look like? They mostly identified the key economic elements that led to the collapse. Eg. when the Allied military intelligence tried to estimate the Panther production, the empirical analysis was amazingly accurate. I recommend you this doc, it covers tire production, etc.
It proves that they knew their job pretty well, so claiming that they were biased and arrogant requires more argument than "they were the victors".
If you are familiar with the circumstances of the team they assembled, then you know that they were not military personnel; they might have been the confidence of a victor, but not the complete ignorance. So to say, they began to assemble the team well before the end of the war. Ofc they knew they will win, but they also knew how to measure the utility of means.
Regarding the number of visitors during / after the war: oh god, by late 1944 the Allied knew perfectly what is going on in Germany, including economic chockepoints, forced labor and Holocaust alike. That's how they identified the targets of industrial bombardments to begin with!
If you scroll through the Hungarian targets, let me tell you this: they knew exactly where to hit even in Hungary! The distribution of the secondary targets and the precise mapping of primary targets allow me to think that the Allied air raid on Axis POL industry was immensely well-aimed; without ever setting foot on this soil. I am very well familiar with this raids as my grandparents' houses were demolished and a few members of my family were maimed or killed.
Whatever, I also recommend you this: http://uni-nke.hu/feltoltes/uni-nke.hu/ ... in_ten.pdf
“And while I am talking to you, mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before, but I shall say it again, and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars." - FDR, October 1940