► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

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Rui
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by Rui » 26 Jan 2019 22:58

kerryboo wrote:
26 Jan 2019 21:51
Hi all,
I think I would go with NSU-Fiat 1100. Note the suicide doors and NSU-type door handles.
Here is one of an identified NSU-Fiat for comparison,
Cheers,
Kerry.
Thanks, Kerry

The suicide doors were only used the NSU?
The Fiat all had normal doors?

Regards
Rui
My Christmas Book Wishlist:

T. Jentz - "Becker Funnies": All Vehicles Converted by Alfred Becker
Martin Block - Bible with all allocations from H.Za to the units
Martin Block - Bible with all Lage (Pz; StuG; Art & Pak; Berge; Beute; gp Kfz)

kerryboo
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by kerryboo » 26 Jan 2019 23:38

Hi Rui,
Yes, as far as I know only the NSU-made Fiats had suicide doors and "normal" door handles, the Italian Fiat and Simca-Fiat cars used semi sunken, upward opening, latch-type handles and front hung doors, as here.
Regards,
Kerry..
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Rui
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by Rui » 27 Jan 2019 00:13

kerryboo wrote:
26 Jan 2019 23:38
Hi Rui,
Yes, as far as I know only the NSU-made Fiats had suicide doors and "normal" door handles, the Italian Fiat and Simca-Fiat cars used semi sunken, upward opening, latch-type handles and front hung doors, as here.
Regards,
Kerry..
Image
Thanks Kerry.
So this is a Fiat or a Simca-Fiat. Do you know which model? A Fiat 1100?

So some photos of Fiat and Simca-Fiat cars on the Kfz. der Wehrmacht website, are actually NSU-Fiat made cars.

Fiat 1500 (A) & 1500 B => there is a photo of a car with a license-plate of "Polizia 289", I suppose this isn't a German license-plate (could it be a Italian Police car? If so, probably a Italian made car...), but have suicide doors. Also there a LSSAH "Fiat 1500 cabriolet" supposedly captured in Italy in 1943, also with suicide doors. Another possibility could be that the Italians used German-made NSU-Fiat cars...

Fiat 500 A Topolino => The second photo, a car with suicide doors, the first photo not sure. Last picture, had a new radiator grille, instead of the usual ones. According to the site, the new radiator grille Fiat 1100 A and L weren't introduced by NSU-Fiat.

SIMCA 5 => Two Fiat 500 Topolino license-built cars, but both with suicide doors.

Regards
Rui
My Christmas Book Wishlist:

T. Jentz - "Becker Funnies": All Vehicles Converted by Alfred Becker
Martin Block - Bible with all allocations from H.Za to the units
Martin Block - Bible with all Lage (Pz; StuG; Art & Pak; Berge; Beute; gp Kfz)

kerryboo
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by kerryboo » 27 Jan 2019 12:28

Hi Rui,
I am sorry, I should have been clearer, I was referring to the Fiat 1100s produced by Fiat NSU and Simca.
The Topolino always had suicide doors, by all manufacturers, as the Fiat 500 and the Simca 5 and the NSU-Fiat 500. It is possible that the NSU-built 500s had the german style handles, but I have seen very little evidence of these, here is one possible photo, but, sadly, of poor quality.
The 1100 models made by NSU were two-door types with suicide doors. NSU, as far as I can ascertain, did not produce any four-door 1100s,, but the Simca 8 and Fiat 1100 four-doors had "clamshell' opening, normal in front and suicide to the rear.
The 1500s built by both Fiat and NSU had suicide doors, they are easily identified by the headlights mounted in the front wings.
My previous photo could be either a Fiat 508c/1100 or a Simca 8, there is very little difference between the two, and none visible in the photo.
I hope that this is not too confused and confusing!
Regards,
Kerry.
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kerryboo
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by kerryboo » 27 Jan 2019 15:01

Hi again,
I have gone through my archived photos, this is the only other Topolino that I can find with the NSU-type handles. It is interesting that both photos show a rarely seen full cabriolet, perhaps a custom-build, nearly all of my photos of 500s are with saloon or semi-cabrio form, with fixed sides and a roll-back central cloth roof.
Regards,
Kerry.
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Last edited by kerryboo on 27 Jan 2019 18:22, edited 1 time in total.

Rui
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by Rui » 27 Jan 2019 15:52

Thanks Kerry. :thumbsup:

Very good explanation. You have high knowledge on this matters. Perhaps you could consider make a book (or several) with this. Some of my book-wishes are "bibles" in these subjects (similar for example to the Tankograd Publishing/Jochen Vollert "British Military Trucks in Wehrmacht Service"):
  • Captured French soft-skinned vehicles (trucks, buses, ambulances, vans, cars, etc) used by the Germans in WWII
  • Captured Italian soft-skinned vehicles (trucks, buses, ambulances, vans, cars, etc) used by the Germans in WWII
  • Captured Dutch, Belgian and others countries soft-skinned vehicles (trucks, buses, ambulances, vans, cars, etc) used by the Germans in WWII
Do you know if there are any books that covers theses subjects, with pictures?

(Motorcycles don't appeal very much to me.)

PS: Nice photo of the deer hunting.
My Christmas Book Wishlist:

T. Jentz - "Becker Funnies": All Vehicles Converted by Alfred Becker
Martin Block - Bible with all allocations from H.Za to the units
Martin Block - Bible with all Lage (Pz; StuG; Art & Pak; Berge; Beute; gp Kfz)

kerryboo
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by kerryboo » 27 Jan 2019 18:20

Hi Rui,
Thank you.
The Tankograd book is available at a much reduced price now, but books on the other subjects do not seem to exist. I would also like to have more written knowledge, but I think I may have to wait a long time for someone to publish, perhaps the market is too small, just you and me!
Keep up the interest, it is something i have loved for over 40 years.
Best regards,
Kerry.

kerryboo
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by kerryboo » 27 Jan 2019 18:39

Rui,
I hope that this is not against the rules, but I have bought many books from this seller, all have been first-class, and, importantly, cheap. This is for the Tankgrad you mention.
Cheers,
Kerry.
https://www.naval-military-press.com/pr ... t-service/

Rui
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Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by Rui » 27 Jan 2019 22:07

kerryboo wrote:
27 Jan 2019 18:20
Hi Rui,
Thank you.
The Tankograd book is available at a much reduced price now, but books on the other subjects do not seem to exist. I would also like to have more written knowledge, but I think I may have to wait a long time for someone to publish, perhaps the market is too small, just you and me!
Keep up the interest, it is something i have loved for over 40 years.
Best regards,
Kerry.
kerryboo wrote:
27 Jan 2019 18:39
Rui,
I hope that this is not against the rules, but I have bought many books from this seller, all have been first-class, and, importantly, cheap. This is for the Tankgrad you mention.
Cheers,
Kerry.
https://www.naval-military-press.com/pr ... t-service/
The market is becoming more small, every day, because the WWII is more far away from the collective memory of the people.

I have already the Tankgrado book I mentioned before. As all of the books on Beutepanzers and Beute trucks of that publisher. I enjoy very much the quality of these books.

I also had the some books about Italian special soft-skinned wheeled vehicles (recon., self-propelled artillery, the "autocannoni"), artillery tractors, armored trucks, halftracks, some of them used by the Germans. But AFV are more predominant than "normal" vehicles, some Beute Italian AFV appears in these books, but less about Beute trucks, cars and other vehicles. Even books about vehicles used by the Italian armed forces are very few.

Some of my last books about Italian vehicles includes:
Enrico Finazzer, Luigi Carretta (2017) - Light Trucks of the Italian Army in WWII (Mushroom Model Publications) => Review
Enrico Finazzer, Ralph Riccio (2015) - Italian Artillery of World War Two (Mushroom Model Publications) => Review
Ralph Riccio (2010) - Italian Tanks and Combat Vehicles of World War 2 (Mattioli 1885/Roadrunner) => Review
Daniele Guglielmi (2005) - Italian Armour in German Service 1943-1945 (Mattioli 1885/Roadrunner) => Review


Very good suggestion of the bookshop. I didn't know them. Thanks a lot.
The Tankgrado book is very cheap now, I bought it 3x more of that price, and with the conversion from GBP to EUR, even more...

Regards
Rui
My Christmas Book Wishlist:

T. Jentz - "Becker Funnies": All Vehicles Converted by Alfred Becker
Martin Block - Bible with all allocations from H.Za to the units
Martin Block - Bible with all Lage (Pz; StuG; Art & Pak; Berge; Beute; gp Kfz)

SIS 5
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by SIS 5 » 28 Jan 2019 08:39

Hi Rui,

to Your question about a book with pics of captured soft-skinned vehicles. I can recommend the book "Beute-Kraftfahrzeuge und -Panzer der deutschen Wehrmacht" by Walter J. Spielberger, Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart, ISBN 3-613-01255-3.

Regards

Bert

Jose85
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by Jose85 » 28 Jan 2019 16:22

...and to add even more confusion to the Fiat 1100 theme, there were many italian coachbuilt ones. (Seems coachbuilt "cheap" cars were very common in Italy.)
Anyway, thanks for all the informations!

Slightly OT:
I would be happy with some book for the Dutch and Belgian stuff too. Not only "Beute" photos, but some history and technical things for that (DAF-Trado conversions...) IMO bit of the problem is that huge part of the WW2 vehicle books are focused on scale modellers, and this isnt much appealing. (no "mainstram" kits)

Rui
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Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by Rui » 28 Jan 2019 16:38

SIS 5 wrote:
28 Jan 2019 08:39
Hi Rui,

to Your question about a book with pics of captured soft-skinned vehicles. I can recommend the book "Beute-Kraftfahrzeuge und -Panzer der deutschen Wehrmacht" by Walter J. Spielberger, Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart, ISBN 3-613-01255-3.

Regards

Bert
Hi Bert, thanks.

I also have that book, I like it very much (although it's only German language, sometimes it's some time consuming to translate it myself, I suppose it's the only one from the series, not translated to English), it's very complete, Spielberg tried to put all information in just one book.

It's a very good reference book, but some information is outdated and confusing, e.g. in the numbers of the converted vehicles by Becker and allocated to Schnelle Brigade West and other units (numbers planned vs. actually converted, the Jentz's Panzer Tracts shed some light on this subject).

A dedicated book to soft-skinned (and in English) will be nice. Could be in the original user and/or in the captor use. A small booklet of Red Army trucks (and in German use) was in the past made by Tankograd Publishing, for example.
My Christmas Book Wishlist:

T. Jentz - "Becker Funnies": All Vehicles Converted by Alfred Becker
Martin Block - Bible with all allocations from H.Za to the units
Martin Block - Bible with all Lage (Pz; StuG; Art & Pak; Berge; Beute; gp Kfz)

Sturm78
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by Sturm78 » 23 Feb 2019 11:33

Hi all,

A OM Taurus (I think)

Image from Ebay
Sturm78
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Maxschnauzer
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by Maxschnauzer » 01 Apr 2019 06:52

These pics are apparently of an armored Bianchi Miles which had been converted into a trailer. I'm pretty familiar with Hifszug Bayern which is something completely different, but can anyone help me understand what was the purpose of Hilfszug Adria. My impression is that it was an SS organization set up in the Mediterranean region but to what end?
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Cheers,
Max

ilfil
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Re: ► Photothread: Italian Vehicles in German Service

Post by ilfil » 01 Apr 2019 18:49

Hi Max,
It isn't 100% sure the thing was based on Bianchi Miles, could be some Fiat.
I was told long ago this vehicle was part of a relief unit formed to help the people in the region after some places were heavily bombed, and some unit vehicles were armoured for protection against partisans of Tito, they most probably were used as "gun trucks" in the convoys.
The writing is most probably for propaganda purpose.
Hilfszug "Adria" was active in so-called OZAK zone, for more see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation ... c_Littoral
HTH
Cheers!
"...and on the 8th day He made truck so that man, made on 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night."

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