What was engraved on the plaque on Suomi M/31 given to Hitler?

[Levallois]

Havent been able to find any information about this. Also has the gun been lost as I've only seen the two photos from the SA Kuva collection. Thank you.

John

[Seppo Koivisto]

Probably something simple, like those donated to Jaeger Battalion 1. I remember reading somewhere that the gun would be in a museum in St. Petersburg.

Jääkäripataljoona 1:lle
sotamarsalkka C.G.Mannerheim
1940

To Jaeger Battalion 1
Field marshal C.G.Mannerheim
1940

33810_crop.jpg

cropped from SA-kuva 33810

[peeved]

Appears to be four lines of text; Quite possibly the third includes "Adolf Hitler" and the fourth "Mannerheim". All crops from SA-Kuva; Archive N:os in image names. SA-Kuva N:o 92773 gives an outside view of the presentation case.

Markus

[Levallois]

I tried to unblur these shots with no success. I'm surprised this wasn't recorded at the time of the gift.

[Mangrove]

The text is not mentioned in any of the documents I have seen, although I have not seen the text of the actual gift document given to Hitler. By the way, there were more magazines given to Hitler than what the photographs of the case suggest.

[Levallois]

Could you translate please? Were the extra magazines drums or coffins or ? Thanks!

[Trilisser, M. A.]

"...large SMG magazine pouch with carrying strap and drum magazines Nos 128, 191, 208, 3727 and 4881, thus these are considered to accompany the SMG given as gift."

[Levallois]

Thank you for the translation. I wonder if the magazine pouch was custom made just for this gift? It is my understanding that Finland did not have any pouches made and that is why you see soldiers with drums tied to their belts with twine.

[JTV]

Thank you for the translation. I wonder if the magazine pouch was custom made just for this gift? It is my understanding that Finland did not have any pouches made and that is why you see soldiers with drums tied to their belts with twine.

The exact literal translation of lipaspussi is magazine bag, while magazine pouch at least nowadays is lipastasku. Hence it may not have been a pouch, but some of sort of bag for carrying the magazines.

When it came to carrying magazines of various automatic weapons, the most common item in Finnish inventory to be used for that purpose was magazine bag originally manufactured for carrying of Lahti-Saloranta m/26 magazines. Although Finnish soldiers seem to have more often placed Suomi m/31 hanging on their belt with various type of straps and hooks.

Photo of Lahti-Saloranta magazine bag closed (shoulder strap seems to be missing): https://www.swat.fi/printer/camera?product_id=4799
There was also a question about this type bag in post #303 in this threat few months back: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=206843&p=2141926
But as far as I know Lahti-Saloranta magazine bag was manufactured in one size only and it is not exactly stylish. So could be that they had some sort of fancier bag made for the magazines?

Might also be worth noting Hitler was not the only one to whom Finnish military donated Suomi m/31 and there were also some others (foreign heads of state, commanders of foreign armed forces etc...) who received Suomi m/31 in a nice box with accessories.

Jarkko

[Levallois]

Jarkko,

As always you know this stuff backwards and forwards. However, I doubt Mannerheim gave Hitler the extra drums in a bag like that. While functional looking it is also as utilitarian looking a bag as one could find; not presentation quality.

As far as other presentation M/31s, do you know of any photos? The Hitler gun is the only one i can remember ever seeing. Thanks!

John

[JTV]

As always you know this stuff backwards and forwards. However, I doubt Mannerheim gave Hitler the extra drums in a bag like that. While functional looking it is also as utilitarian looking a bag as one could find; not presentation quality.

That would be my educated guess as well. It would make sense if the "magazine bag" would be of similar quality as the presentation case in which the submachine gun was handed over.

As far as other presentation M/31s, do you know of any photos? The Hitler gun is the only one i can remember ever seeing. Thanks!

If such photographs exist they have not been published yet. The photos published in SA-kuva.fi are all from World War 2, but the other presentation Suomi m/31 were apparently used as VIP gift items in post World War 2 era. Palokangas mentions this in "Military Small Arms in Finland 1918 - 1988" part 2 page 266. According him presentation Suomi m/31 were mainly given as presents to "commander" (presumably commander of armed forces?) level VIPs when they visited Finland and seems to suggest that this procedure contined into era in which assault rifles had already replaced submachine guns in general use. Unfortunately the particular part in his text is not equipped with reference info.

It would be also worth noting that Suomi m/31 given to Hitler as presentation piece was only part of the gift that Marshal Mannerheim had decided to give the Germans with his visit to Berlin. Another part of the present was 120 new Suomi m/31 given to German troops, those 120 guns were delivered to AOK Norwegen and handed over to Hauptmann Kuerschner in Misi railway station (near city of Rovaniemi) in 11th of July 1942.

t: Jarkko

[Levallois]

Excellent information! Thank you.

[Mangrove]

Palokangas mentions this in "Military Small Arms in Finland 1918 - 1988" part 2 page 266. According him presentation Suomi m/31 were mainly given as presents to "commander" (presumably commander of armed forces?) level VIPs when they visited Finland and seems to suggest that this procedure contined into era in which assault rifles had already replaced submachine guns in general use. Unfortunately the particular part in his text is not equipped with reference info.

I found a document, dated 6 March 1943, mentioning a m/31 SJR (S/N 20636), five 70 round drum magazines, Lahti-Saloranta m/26 "magazine bag" and tool bag in a crate/box (Kiste) forwarded to Kapitan zur See Henry Koch and to be delivered to OKW at Berlin.

[Mangrove]

Another Finnish document, dated 10 January 1944, refers to a sub-machinegun, sling, cleaning kit and 10 x 50 round magazines to be shipped from Finland to Minister Kivimäki at Berlin.

[WilhelmReinhold]

About the number of M/31 given to Hitler as a gift. During a judicial proceeding in 1948 in Stockholm the previous owner of Tikkakoski arms factory, Mr. Daugs, announced that the total number of M/31 subm. guns given as a gift for Hitler was two hundred. The idea was to offer a gift that was summarily equal in value with the lavish Mercedes cars Hitler had offered to Mannerheim earlier. The factory price for 200 pcs. of M/31 submachine guns with two barrels each + magazine would have been appr. 650 000 FIM at the time. Unfortunately, I can't say anything about the value of those Mercedes cars.