SS-Division "Handschar" photos

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FlyingStukas
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#631

Post by FlyingStukas » 04 Apr 2019, 13:57

Ivan has warned you multiple times but I don't think you quite realize what the problem is - inquiring is fine. Researching, trying to make valid connections, even assumptions, is fine. Using uncredited sources and "drawing" over historical photos to make some unconfirmed connections is not fine! I don't want to demonstrate here how easily I can manipulate/photoshop photos, and quite literally like Ivan said, could place my grandmother to appear "realistic" in this time period. Once again - reliable sources, - no drawing over photos, - keep a dose of skepticism for everything you come across, especially with the Handschar Division.

Cheers,
Filip

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FlyingStukas
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#632

Post by FlyingStukas » 04 Apr 2019, 14:09

Seems like the "Imam discussion" has come to a standstill, so let's change the topic a little bit.
Here's an interesting photo from Beeldbank WO2, depicting one of the iconic 5 artillery brothers of the division, Jašar.
The original file name says "Five brothers and one Howitzer. As he learned over a period of time in Germany, Jašar prepares the "Doppelzünder" (Flak Shell). The file is pretty straight-forward, and even has a nice date and location.
My question - is there any indication of might have happened with these boys after the war? Any indication on any of them being KIA?

Cheers,
Filip
Attachments
April 1944, Jasar (one of the 5 brothers) from the Handschar Division, Bosnia.jpg
Source: Beeldbank WO2, File Number: 3592
April 1944, Jasar (one of the 5 brothers) from the Handschar Division, Bosnia.jpg (51.95 KiB) Viewed 3123 times


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Huska
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#633

Post by Huska » 04 Apr 2019, 14:19

Ok Filip,look at this picture -Mufti and Salih Hadzialich(with glasses by the mufti in the coat) visitng the troops,Neuhammer late 1943

Regarding your brothers and howitzer question,maybe they died,they were really young and probably not that skillful in the war.
Attachments
1554374458782.image (1).png
SOURCE-GETTY
1554374458782.image (1).png (155.4 KiB) Viewed 3123 times
Best Regards

-Huska

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FlyingStukas
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#634

Post by FlyingStukas » 04 Apr 2019, 14:38

Hello, Huska
War isn't as straight-forward as dying due to "being young not that skillful". Maybe someone else knows of their fate?

Cheers,
Filip

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#635

Post by balkanguy44 » 04 Apr 2019, 16:02

Hello, Filip

From what I know at least one of them was KIA but I don’t know it exactly.

Cheers,
BG44
Cheers,
BG44

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DFrolov1992
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#636

Post by DFrolov1992 » 05 Apr 2019, 11:12

FlyingStukas wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 14:09
Seems like the "Imam discussion" has come to a standstill, so let's change the topic a little bit.
Here's an interesting photo from Beeldbank WO2, depicting one of the iconic 5 artillery brothers of the division, Jašar.
The original file name says "Five brothers and one Howitzer. As he learned over a period of time in Germany, Jašar prepares the "Doppelzünder" (Flak Shell). The file is pretty straight-forward, and even has a nice date and location.
My question - is there any indication of might have happened with these boys after the war? Any indication on any of them being KIA?

Cheers,
Filip
Hello Filip

In fact, the brothers were not five, but six. This becomes known from the speech of the Great Mufti of Jerusalem published in the divisional newspaper "Handschar" (Folge 8 Seite 3)
It is practically impossible to find out the post-war fate of Muslim volunteers, unless they had data (rare exceptions) in the DRK database (Deutsches Rotes Kreuz) and if they did not come into the view of the state security agencies.

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#637

Post by Ivan Ž. » 05 Apr 2019, 11:57

FlyingStukas wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 14:09
The file is pretty straight-forward, and even has a nice date and location.
Hello, Filip
Ignore archival dates and locations, they are too often incorrect. As far as I know, there's no date/location written for these photos originally.
DFrolov1992 wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 11:12
In fact, the brothers were not five, but six. This becomes known from the speech of the Great Mufti of Jerusalem published in the divisional newspaper "Handschar" (Folge 8 Seite 3)
Hello, Dmitry
See page 21 viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77027&p=2177240#p2177240 (and you've also been given credit for discovering this nice little detail ;) )

Cheers,
Ivan

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DFrolov1992
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#638

Post by DFrolov1992 » 05 Apr 2019, 13:54

Ivan Ž. wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 11:57
FlyingStukas wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 14:09
The file is pretty straight-forward, and even has a nice date and location.
Hello, Filip
Ignore archival dates and locations, they are too often incorrect. As far as I know, there's no date/location written for these photos originally.
DFrolov1992 wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 11:12
In fact, the brothers were not five, but six. This becomes known from the speech of the Great Mufti of Jerusalem published in the divisional newspaper "Handschar" (Folge 8 Seite 3)
Hello, Dmitry
See page 21 viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77027&p=2177240#p2177240 (and you've also been given credit for discovering this nice little detail ;) )

Cheers,
Ivan
Hello, Ivan

Thank you, I forgot about what you already wrote about it.

Regards

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Huska
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#639

Post by Huska » 06 Apr 2019, 10:58

High quality picture of Handschar Soldaten :milwink:
1944
3593.jpg
SOURCE-NIOD
3593.jpg (41.13 KiB) Viewed 2998 times
Best Regards

-Huska

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#640

Post by balkanguy44 » 16 Apr 2019, 11:10

According to a French page this is SS-Standartenführer Oskar Kirchbaum but the rank of this person is SS-Obersturmbannführer. Can somebody confirm the identity of this officer?

image.jpg
image.jpg (67.73 KiB) Viewed 2874 times
(Source: http://historeich.blogspot.com/2017/05/ ... nerie.html)
Cheers,
BG44

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#641

Post by Ivan Ž. » 16 Apr 2019, 11:37

It's indeed Kirchbaum, who was an SS-Obersturmbannführer (not SS-Standartenführer, that's an error).

The photo source is "Himmler's Bosnian Division" by G. Lepre (someone tried to restore it a bit, and failed).

Cheers,
Ivan

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#642

Post by balkanguy44 » 16 Apr 2019, 12:55

Thank you, Ivan.

Cheers,
BG44
Cheers,
BG44

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#643

Post by balkanguy44 » 07 May 2019, 19:00

Heinrich Himmler talks with a young German instructor, Neuhammer, November 1943.
Who is the guy next to Himmler (left side)?

image.jpg
(Source: Wiener Illustrierte, issue from 12 January 1944)
Last edited by balkanguy44 on 07 May 2019, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers,
BG44

history1
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#644

Post by history1 » 07 May 2019, 20:01

balkanguy44 wrote:
07 May 2019, 19:00
Heinrich Himmler talks with a young German instructor, Neuhammer, January 1944.
[...]
(Source: Wiener Illustrierte, issue from 12 January 1944)
The source says nothing about a place nor a date when this visit happened. And the photo caption is
" In conversation with a German instructor from the young Bosnian Volunteer- SS".
http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno? ... =3&zoom=37

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

#645

Post by balkanguy44 » 07 May 2019, 20:20

Hello, history1

It was taken at the Neuhammer Training Grounds in November 1943. As you can see there (just take a look at the caption of the first picture). ;)

I didn’t transelate the caption into English 1:1 because it wasn’t my intention at all. Your translation sounds a bit like classic “Germanismus“. :D

Cheers,
BG44
Last edited by balkanguy44 on 07 May 2019, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers,
BG44

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