where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
Hitler attached great importance to the occupation of Europe. About 2 million Germans carried the occupation service there. And from there it was impossible to take troops.
https://maxpark.com/community/14/content/1831658
For some reason, it is believed that in June 1941, as many as 5 million Wehrmacht soldiers crossed the border with the USSR. This common myth is easily refuted.
The number of Wehrmacht in June 1941 reached:
7,234 thousand people (Muller – Gillebrandt) including:
1. The current army - 3.8 million people.
2. Army Reserve - 1.2 million people.
3. Air Force - 1.68 million.
4. SS troops - 0.15 million people.
Explanation:
The army of the reserve in the number of 1.2 million people in the aggression against the USSR was not involved. It was intended for military districts in Germany itself.
Civilian-hivi — counted into the total number indicated above. At the beginning of the Second World War, they did not actively participate in the battles.
WHERE WERMAHTA TROOPS HAVE BEEN?
The Wehrmacht in June 1941 had about 700,000 soldiers in France, Belgium and Holland, in case of Allied landings.
In the remaining occupation zones — Norway, Austria, Czechoslovakia, the Balkans, Crete, Poland — as many as 1,000,000 soldiers were taken away from the Wehrmacht.
Riots and uprisings flared up regularly and a large number of Wehrmacht troops in the occupied territories were needed to maintain order.
General Rommel's African corps had about 100,000 men. The total number of Wehrmacht troops in the Middle East region reached 300,000.
https://maxpark.com/community/14/content/1831658
For some reason, it is believed that in June 1941, as many as 5 million Wehrmacht soldiers crossed the border with the USSR. This common myth is easily refuted.
The number of Wehrmacht in June 1941 reached:
7,234 thousand people (Muller – Gillebrandt) including:
1. The current army - 3.8 million people.
2. Army Reserve - 1.2 million people.
3. Air Force - 1.68 million.
4. SS troops - 0.15 million people.
Explanation:
The army of the reserve in the number of 1.2 million people in the aggression against the USSR was not involved. It was intended for military districts in Germany itself.
Civilian-hivi — counted into the total number indicated above. At the beginning of the Second World War, they did not actively participate in the battles.
WHERE WERMAHTA TROOPS HAVE BEEN?
The Wehrmacht in June 1941 had about 700,000 soldiers in France, Belgium and Holland, in case of Allied landings.
In the remaining occupation zones — Norway, Austria, Czechoslovakia, the Balkans, Crete, Poland — as many as 1,000,000 soldiers were taken away from the Wehrmacht.
Riots and uprisings flared up regularly and a large number of Wehrmacht troops in the occupied territories were needed to maintain order.
General Rommel's African corps had about 100,000 men. The total number of Wehrmacht troops in the Middle East region reached 300,000.
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
That's pretty bad, the fact that the majority of Soviet territory was going to be unoccupied.
Stalin could have always invited the US Army (he asked for British divisions shortly after the invasion started) to help him, he was flexible. Stalinism was communism plus "whatever works", "by any means necessary" - he would do it.
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
it is fairly simple to refute this, its not common to think that please show me who thinks that jesk ??jesk wrote -
For some reason, it is believed that in June 1941, as many as 5 million Wehrmacht soldiers crossed the border with the USSR. This common myth is easily refuted.
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
And this is all that could highlight? What about the lack of resources for Barbarossa, when 2 million German soldiers carried the occupation service in Europe. Why such an expensive occupation !?doogal wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 20:57it is fairly simple to refute this, its not common to think that please show me who thinks that jesk ??jesk wrote -
For some reason, it is believed that in June 1941, as many as 5 million Wehrmacht soldiers crossed the border with the USSR. This common myth is easily refuted.
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
It was certainly bad for the third reich's longevity.
There was a complete disconnect in Berlin's strategic thinking. Dear leader wanted to erase 'jewish bolshevism' from the map, the Heer recognised that they didn't have anywhere near the combat potential to deliver dear leader's desired policy. So a compromise was designed (BARBAROSSA) and wishful thinking was deployed to connect the unconnected. To make matters worse, the Heer chose to ignore the warnings that even the compromise was not doable and promptly failed to deliver even that. Didn't even get close.
BARBAROSSA was the product of a psychopath's racist, deluded cravings. The result of BARBAROSSA (failure), and the outcome, was the product of hubris, abysmal military strategy and tactical decionmaking.
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
There was little choice but to garrison the occupied territories. They were taken by force and stripped of industry and wealth, to not garrison them would be to flirt with disaster. But it would be fair to say that some occupied territories ( for instance Norway ) had higher levels of deployment than were actually needed.Why such an expensive occupation
I would ask which countries you consider able to be left ungarrisoned ??
if you could provide your sources for this number. And suggest a suitable figure for occupying these territories:2 million German soldiers carried the occupation service in Europe
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
One of the alternatives. As seen, besides a lot in Norway to me and you have nothing to say. The topic has not been disclosed. How many soldiers are needed for the occupation of European countries, in the context of a shortage of people for Barbarossa.doogal wrote: ↑28 Apr 2019, 01:30There was little choice but to garrison the occupied territories. They were taken by force and stripped of industry and wealth, to not garrison them would be to flirt with disaster. But it would be fair to say that some occupied territories ( for instance Norway ) had higher levels of deployment than were actually needed.Why such an expensive occupation
I would ask which countries you consider able to be left ungarrisoned ??
if you could provide your sources for this number. And suggest a suitable figure for occupying these territories:2 million German soldiers carried the occupation service in Europe
Fromm said he had resources for 5 months, they were only enough for 2 ...
Sid Guttridge wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 13:12Fromm, head of the Ersatzheer, thought he had enough replacements for five months. In fact they were needed in two months because casualty rates were much higher than anticipated. This was clearly an Army calculation.
However, Hitler ordered the war and had absolute authority, so he, at the very least, shares the blame. If he "wouldn't" make the extra troops available, he was clearly at fault. If he "couldn't" make the extra troops available then he was also at fault for launching a campaign for which he had insufficient resources.
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
doogal wrote: ↑28 Apr 2019, 01:30From Nigel Askey Operation Barbarossa Volume II B P 82Why such an expensive occupation[/quote
There was little choice but to garrison the occupied territories. They were taken by force and stripped of industry and wealth, to not garrison them would be to flirt with disaster. But it would be fair to say that some occupied territories ( for instance Norway ) had higher levels of deployment than were actually needed.
I would ask which countries you consider able to be left ungarrisoned ??
if you could provide your sources for this number. And suggest a suitable figure for occupying these territories:2 million German soldiers carried the occupation service in Europe
Norway : 123000
AG D West
7th A : 141000
1st A : 106000
15th A : 205000
Reserves : 55000
12th A (Balkans ) : 169000
DAK : 82000
Replacement Army : 1076000
Total : 1960000,of whom less than 900000 for occupation duties . The 2 million figure for occupation forces is wrong .
The figure of 1960000 includes army, WSS, LW ground and Naval Coastal artillery units .
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
2 other points :
1 Most of the units ( some 50 divisions ) who were not committed for Barbarossa, were not fit for Barbarossa .
2 The replacement figures given by Fromm are irrelevant, as more replaacements would not help the Germans .Besides, the campaign in the East could only succeed if it was won in 2 months. Thus there were no replacements needed for 5 months .
1 Most of the units ( some 50 divisions ) who were not committed for Barbarossa, were not fit for Barbarossa .
2 The replacement figures given by Fromm are irrelevant, as more replaacements would not help the Germans .Besides, the campaign in the East could only succeed if it was won in 2 months. Thus there were no replacements needed for 5 months .
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
I would say that with or without manstein germany couldn't win against soviet union(logisiti? Industrial power? Ressources?).
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
generals do not win wars .aurelien wolff wrote: ↑28 Apr 2019, 10:35I would say that with or without manstein germany couldn't win against soviet union(logisiti? Industrial power? Ressources?).
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
Austria was not an occupation zone .jesk wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 19:35Hitler attached great importance to the occupation of Europe. About 2 million Germans carried the occupation service there. And from there it was impossible to take troops.
https://maxpark.com/community/14/content/1831658
For some reason, it is believed that in June 1941, as many as 5 million Wehrmacht soldiers crossed the border with the USSR. This common myth is easily refuted.
The number of Wehrmacht in June 1941 reached:
7,234 thousand people (Muller – Gillebrandt) including:
1. The current army - 3.8 million people.
2. Army Reserve - 1.2 million people.
3. Air Force - 1.68 million.
4. SS troops - 0.15 million people.
Explanation:
The army of the reserve in the number of 1.2 million people in the aggression against the USSR was not involved. It was intended for military districts in Germany itself.
Civilian-hivi — counted into the total number indicated above. At the beginning of the Second World War, they did not actively participate in the battles.
WHERE WERMAHTA TROOPS HAVE BEEN?
The Wehrmacht in June 1941 had about 700,000 soldiers in France, Belgium and Holland, in case of Allied landings.
In the remaining occupation zones — Norway, Austria, Czechoslovakia, the Balkans, Crete, Poland — as many as 1,000,000 soldiers were taken away from the Wehrmacht.
Riots and uprisings flared up regularly and a large number of Wehrmacht troops in the occupied territories were needed to maintain order.
General Rommel's African corps had about 100,000 men. The total number of Wehrmacht troops in the Middle East region reached 300,000.
Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?
I think it is clear that even a significant reduction of occupation forces and there use in the east would not in any real sense have had a positive effect. In reality it may have hastened Nazi Germanys defeat.rom Nigel Askey Operation Barbarossa Volume II B P 82
Norway : 123000
AG D West
7th A : 141000
1st A : 106000
15th A : 205000
Reserves : 55000
12th A (Balkans ) : 169000
DAK : 82000
Replacement Army : 1076000
Total : 1960000,of whom less than 900000 for occupation duties . The 2 million figure for occupation forces is wrong .
The figure of 1960000 includes army, WSS, LW ground and Naval Coastal artillery units .