SS-Division "Handschar" photos

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FlyingStukas
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by FlyingStukas » 04 Apr 2019 12:57

Ivan has warned you multiple times but I don't think you quite realize what the problem is - inquiring is fine. Researching, trying to make valid connections, even assumptions, is fine. Using uncredited sources and "drawing" over historical photos to make some unconfirmed connections is not fine! I don't want to demonstrate here how easily I can manipulate/photoshop photos, and quite literally like Ivan said, could place my grandmother to appear "realistic" in this time period. Once again - reliable sources, - no drawing over photos, - keep a dose of skepticism for everything you come across, especially with the Handschar Division.

Cheers,
Filip
Cheers,
Filip

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FlyingStukas
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by FlyingStukas » 04 Apr 2019 13:09

Seems like the "Imam discussion" has come to a standstill, so let's change the topic a little bit.
Here's an interesting photo from Beeldbank WO2, depicting one of the iconic 5 artillery brothers of the division, Jašar.
The original file name says "Five brothers and one Howitzer. As he learned over a period of time in Germany, Jašar prepares the "Doppelzünder" (Flak Shell). The file is pretty straight-forward, and even has a nice date and location.
My question - is there any indication of might have happened with these boys after the war? Any indication on any of them being KIA?

Cheers,
Filip
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Cheers,
Filip

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Huska
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by Huska » 04 Apr 2019 13:19

Ok Filip,look at this picture -Mufti and Salih Hadzialich(with glasses by the mufti in the coat) visitng the troops,Neuhammer late 1943

Regarding your brothers and howitzer question,maybe they died,they were really young and probably not that skillful in the war.
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-Huska

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FlyingStukas
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by FlyingStukas » 04 Apr 2019 13:38

Hello, Huska
War isn't as straight-forward as dying due to "being young not that skillful". Maybe someone else knows of their fate?

Cheers,
Filip
Cheers,
Filip

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by balkanguy44 » 04 Apr 2019 15:02

Hello, Filip

From what I know at least one of them was KIA but I don’t know it exactly.

Cheers,
BG44
Cheers,
BG44

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DFrolov1992
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by DFrolov1992 » 05 Apr 2019 10:12

FlyingStukas wrote:
04 Apr 2019 13:09
Seems like the "Imam discussion" has come to a standstill, so let's change the topic a little bit.
Here's an interesting photo from Beeldbank WO2, depicting one of the iconic 5 artillery brothers of the division, Jašar.
The original file name says "Five brothers and one Howitzer. As he learned over a period of time in Germany, Jašar prepares the "Doppelzünder" (Flak Shell). The file is pretty straight-forward, and even has a nice date and location.
My question - is there any indication of might have happened with these boys after the war? Any indication on any of them being KIA?

Cheers,
Filip
Hello Filip

In fact, the brothers were not five, but six. This becomes known from the speech of the Great Mufti of Jerusalem published in the divisional newspaper "Handschar" (Folge 8 Seite 3)
It is practically impossible to find out the post-war fate of Muslim volunteers, unless they had data (rare exceptions) in the DRK database (Deutsches Rotes Kreuz) and if they did not come into the view of the state security agencies.

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by Ivan Ž. » 05 Apr 2019 10:57

FlyingStukas wrote:
04 Apr 2019 13:09
The file is pretty straight-forward, and even has a nice date and location.
Hello, Filip
Ignore archival dates and locations, they are too often incorrect. As far as I know, there's no date/location written for these photos originally.
DFrolov1992 wrote:
05 Apr 2019 10:12
In fact, the brothers were not five, but six. This becomes known from the speech of the Great Mufti of Jerusalem published in the divisional newspaper "Handschar" (Folge 8 Seite 3)
Hello, Dmitry
See page 21 viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77027&p=2177240#p2177240 (and you've also been given credit for discovering this nice little detail ;) )

Cheers,
Ivan

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DFrolov1992
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by DFrolov1992 » 05 Apr 2019 12:54

Ivan Ž. wrote:
05 Apr 2019 10:57
FlyingStukas wrote:
04 Apr 2019 13:09
The file is pretty straight-forward, and even has a nice date and location.
Hello, Filip
Ignore archival dates and locations, they are too often incorrect. As far as I know, there's no date/location written for these photos originally.
DFrolov1992 wrote:
05 Apr 2019 10:12
In fact, the brothers were not five, but six. This becomes known from the speech of the Great Mufti of Jerusalem published in the divisional newspaper "Handschar" (Folge 8 Seite 3)
Hello, Dmitry
See page 21 viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77027&p=2177240#p2177240 (and you've also been given credit for discovering this nice little detail ;) )

Cheers,
Ivan
Hello, Ivan

Thank you, I forgot about what you already wrote about it.

Regards

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Huska
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by Huska » 06 Apr 2019 09:58

High quality picture of Handschar Soldaten :milwink:
1944
3593.jpg
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-Huska

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by balkanguy44 » 16 Apr 2019 10:10

According to a French page this is SS-Standartenführer Oskar Kirchbaum but the rank of this person is SS-Obersturmbannführer. Can somebody confirm the identity of this officer?

image.jpg
(Source: http://historeich.blogspot.com/2017/05/ ... nerie.html)
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BG44

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by Ivan Ž. » 16 Apr 2019 10:37

It's indeed Kirchbaum, who was an SS-Obersturmbannführer (not SS-Standartenführer, that's an error).

The photo source is "Himmler's Bosnian Division" by G. Lepre (someone tried to restore it a bit, and failed).

Cheers,
Ivan

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by balkanguy44 » 16 Apr 2019 11:55

Thank you, Ivan.

Cheers,
BG44
Cheers,
BG44

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by balkanguy44 » 07 May 2019 18:00

Heinrich Himmler talks with a young German instructor, Neuhammer, November 1943.
Who is the guy next to Himmler (left side)?

image.jpg
(Source: Wiener Illustrierte, issue from 12 January 1944)
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Last edited by balkanguy44 on 07 May 2019 19:36, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers,
BG44

history1
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by history1 » 07 May 2019 19:01

balkanguy44 wrote:
07 May 2019 18:00
Heinrich Himmler talks with a young German instructor, Neuhammer, January 1944.
[...]
(Source: Wiener Illustrierte, issue from 12 January 1944)
The source says nothing about a place nor a date when this visit happened. And the photo caption is
" In conversation with a German instructor from the young Bosnian Volunteer- SS".
http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno? ... =3&zoom=37

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balkanguy44
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Re: SS-Division "Handschar" photos

Post by balkanguy44 » 07 May 2019 19:20

Hello, history1

It was taken at the Neuhammer Training Grounds in November 1943. As you can see there (just take a look at the caption of the first picture). ;)

I didn’t transelate the caption into English 1:1 because it wasn’t my intention at all. Your translation sounds a bit like classic “Germanismus“. :D

Cheers,
BG44
Last edited by balkanguy44 on 07 May 2019 19:36, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers,
BG44

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