ljadw wrote: ↑16 Jun 2019, 20:22
I have given as source 2 historians ,
one who said that prototypyes of what later was called the T 34 were used against Japan .
Yes you did, but he wrote no such thing, you made it up. Which is why you get to return to ignore, because you do this all the time.
ljadw wrote: ↑16 Jun 2019, 20:22
an other who said that such prototypes were also used in the war against Finland .
Yes you did,buts its again made up.What he wrote was the T34m in its trials in March 1940 fired on Finnish bunkers see
http://russian-tanks.com/tank-t-341.php but was not involved in any combat as the war was already over.
ljadw wrote: ↑16 Jun 2019, 20:22
Trying to move the discussion to something different = the number of T34 built in 1940,proves one has no valid arguments .
In history, there are things called facts, facts are used to understand history. Its a fact that the first two T34 prototypes were produced after both the winter war and Russia/Japan wars had been fought. Its a historical fact that they cannot have been present in either.
ljadw wrote: ↑16 Jun 2019, 20:22
A third source is the Soviet Tank encyclopedia which states that the first prototypes of the A 32 tank ( which was the T 34 tank with another name ) were already built at the end of 1938 . .
Actually it says no such thing, you have made that up as well.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/s ... T34-76.php
A20 ( comment they only built 1, spending the duration of the conflict with Japan in trials, and no its not a t34 with another name as it has 20mm( not 45mm armour and 45 mm main gun, not a 76mm,400 mm not 550mm, wide tracks etc and is a A tank, which means its an experimental/evaluation model)
The first and only prototype was built in May of 1939. It spent most of 1939 in trials and comparisons with its rival, the A-32 (read below). The A-20 did not have impressive armor or armament, but it did have excellent mobility. The senior officials, not able to pick one over the other, approved both new prototypes for serial production. As the Kharkov plant was already being prepared to produce the A-34 it could not accommodate the A-20 production at the same time, and eventually A-20 was dropped.
A32 ( comment they built 2, no mention of combat role)
The first A-32 prototype, with the L-10 76 mm gun (the second prototype had a 45 mm cannon).
Two prototypes were built in the spring and summer of 1939. The tank weighed 19 tonnes, but performed well after being loaded with ballast up to 24 tonnes. After many trials and comparisons with the A-20, this tank needed a few more improvements before being accepted for mass production. The order from the Defense Committee approving the tank for production referred to it as the T-32 – this is the only mention of this designation. Technically, it was not the A-32 being approved for mass production, but the improved A-34 (read below). It is not known what happened to the two prototypes or whether they participated in combat.
A-34: Beginning of a legend ( comment i used the kharkov factoryT34m designation for the 2 built, its september before any T34 are produced for the military to use.
After A-32 showed promise, the design was improved further. One of the features which would prove important later on was its thick armor – now using 45 mm armor plates. The new L-11 76 mm gun was also superior to the L-10. Tracks were widened from 400 mm to 550 mm – another crucial detail which would give the T-34 an edge over the narrow-tracked German vehicles.
Two prototypes were built in January and February of 1940. A-34 prototype #2 had an unusual “driver’s cupola” protruding forward – essentially a way to improve driver’s visibility (which was reported to be awful on prototype #1). This version was not accepted for mass production and A-34 prototype #1 was used instead. These tanks are sometimes referred to as the “pre-series T-34”. (Snip,) The two tanks and support vehicles left Kharkov in March on 1940, avoiding large towns due to the project’s secrecy (snip) But by this time, on March 31st 1940 during a meeting of several senior officials (including the lead designer Koshkin) it was decided to go ahead with the production of T-34.
ljadw wrote: ↑16 Jun 2019, 20:22
The Soviet Tank Encyclopedia said that the first prototype of the T34 was an improved A 32 .
From the same source :the blue print of the T 34 was set up long before the war .
Links in the evolution of the T-34, left to right: BT-7M, A-20, T-34 mod. 1940 (L-11), T-34 mod. 1941 (F-34).
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.