Paul Lakowski wrote: ↑03 Jul 2019, 03:25
ljadw wrote: ↑02 Jul 2019, 16:20
These figures do not prove the superiority of German tanks, German tank crews, German tank tactics,because most German tank losses were not caused by Soviet tanks, Soviet tank losses were mostly not caused by German tanks.
There is also no proof that the PzII was useless.The Ostheer started in June 1941 with 746 PzII ,lost in 1941 398 of them and received in 1941 23 PzII replacements .
The initial number of PzI is not known, but the losses were 341 and replacements were 12 .
Jentz figures report 877 Panzer II in June-1 1941 and 756 were with the divisions by late Aug/early Sept 1941 . Reportedly 171 Panzer-1 were also with the divisions June 1941,while in Aug/Sept , 326 were reported with divisions. Clearly the panzer 1 losses also include tanks turned over for conversion.
The Panzer-I & II were clearly obsolete in France 1940 , so long term replacement was due. More importantly the lack of needed tank production numbers demanded a complete revision of industrial building priorities. Ignoring the resource of 2000 Pz-I & II already built tanks was a terrible waste given the problem at hand. Building their way out of such a problem would take years , but rapid mass conversion, could help to narrow the gap quick enough to make real difference.
A "mad scramble to convert all the 1000 Pz-I AND >900 Pz-II into Panzerjäger-I & Panzerjäger-II" ; was a doable solution to an immediate problem, lack of tanks!
With a 41/42 army reinforced with ~ 900 Panzerjäger-I and 500 Panzerjäger-II , the numerous winter Russian tank supported attacks could have been thwarted , limiting the effectiveness of the Russian counter attacks of winter of 1941/42.
Viewed as a SYSTEM ; at the start of Barbarossa the RED ARMY out numbered the Nazi by 5:1 strategically , but by Dec-1941 the Nazi out numbered the RED ARMY 1.5 :1 in tanks.
29,125 RED ARMY TANKS VS 5690 NAZI TANKS at start REDUCED TO 1927 RED VS 3000 NAZI by Dec 1941.
Oh dear lord, what a crock. What is clear to you is you have no idea of how to read the data, no it does not include turned over for conversion. You also forgot to add in SU production for the year.
22/6/41: SU 22.6k V German 3648, Jan of 42, SU 7.7k German 1547, went from 6:1 odds to 5:1.
Do you have to use bold text to draw attention to your inability to count?, its not required as its painfully clear without it
Archive files: Federal German Archive, Military Archive
Production numbers of the Heer June 1941 to Jan. 1942, BA-MA, RH 8/v.1090, 1091.
Rolf-Dieter Müller, Das Scheitern der wirtschaftlichen "Blitzkriegstrategie" [The failed economic Blitzkrieg strategy], in: Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg, Vol. 4, Der Angriff auf die Sowjetunion, pp. 936-1078, see pp. 977.
In stock: 3648 (June 22, 1941)
total losses: 3254
surviving: 394
newly supplied: 1153
in stock: 1547 (end of Jan. 1942)
Production / allocation rates / total losses for Pz I
June 1941: 0 / 0 / 34
July 1941: 0 / 0 / 146
Aug. 1941: 0 / 0 / 171
Sept. 1941: 0 / 0/ 7
Oct. 1941: 0 / 0 / 18
Nov. 1941: 0 / 12 / 33
Dec. 1941: 0 / 0/ 19
Jan. 1942: 0 / 22 / 30
Total: 0 / 42 / 450
Production / allocation rates / total losses for Pz II & II F
June 1941: 15 / 0 / 11
July 1941: 20 (pl) / 0 / 112
Aug. 1941: 36 / 1 / 104
Sept. 1941: 37 / 5 / 32
Oct. 1941: 48 / 1 / 65
Nov. 1941: 45 / 16 / 30
Dec. 1941: 50 (pl) / 15 / 70
Jan. 1942: 38 / 31 / 68
Total: 289 / 69 / 492
Production / allocation rates / total losses for Pz III
June 1941: 133 / 0 /21
July 1941: 115 (pl)/ 45 / 155
Aug. 1941: 179 / 0 /74
Sept. 1941: 178 / 6 / 104
Oct. 1941: 179 / 187 / 77
Nov. 1941: 206 / 39 / 116
Dec. 1941: 188 (pl) / 0 / 113
Jan. 1942: 159 / 55 / 160
Total: 1337 /332 / 820
Production / allocation rates / total losses for Pz 38 (t)
June 1941: 65 / 0 / 33
July 1941: 65 (pl)/ 27 / 182
Aug. 1941: 64 / 8 / 183
Sept. 1941: 76 / 1 / 62
Oct. 1941: 53 / 72 / 85
Nov. 1941: 50 / 0 / 149
Dec. 1941: 50 (pl) / 0 / 102
Jan. 1942: 59 / 0 / 27
Total: 482 / 108 / 823
Production / allocation rates / total losses for Pz IV
June 1941: 38 / 0 / 15
July 1941: 41 (pl)/ 15 / 109
Aug. 1941: 44 / 0 / 68
Sept. 1941: 46 / 2 / 23
Oct. 1941: 51 / 56 / 55
Nov. 1941: 52 / 7 / 38
Dec. 1941: 56 (pl) / 0 / 40
Jan. 1942: 59 / 22 / 48
Total: 387 /102 / 396
Production / allocation rates / total losses for assault guns
June 1941: 56 / 0 / 3
July 1941: 47 (pl) / 4 / 11
Aug. 1941: 50 / 0 / 26
Sept. 1941: 38 / 0 / 12
Oct. 1941: 71 / 7 / 23
Nov. 1941: 46 / 0 / 10
Dec. 1941: 40 (pl) / 1 / 19
Jan. 1942: 45 / 3 / 53
Total: 393 / 15 / 157
Production / allocation rates / total losses for command tanks
June 1941: 5 / 0 / 1
July 1941: 15 (pl) / 0 / 17
Aug. 1941: 0 / 2 / 12
Sept. 1941: 2 / 0 / 17
Oct. 1941: 0 / 0 / 14
Nov. 1941: 0 / 5 / 6
Dec. 1941: 15 (pl) / 0 / 12
Jan. 1942: 14 / 18 / 37
Total: 51 / 25 / 116
SU side.
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a56 ... 35e9d5.png
Krivishev Table 96 Tanks and SPG
22/6/41 On hand 22.6k recieved from factory, 5.6k, total stock, 28.2k, losses 22.5k.
1/1/42 On hand 7.7k.
Given your posting history as weheraboo troll,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNYTx8Ay5rk who deliberately misuses numbers all the time, im going to place you on ignore.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.