Here's my post that started the discussion:
Here's the first response:TheMarcksPlan wrote:As far the Jews of Europe are concerned we did let Hitler win.
He should have been stopped no later than 1939 when there was an opportunity for France/UK/USSR anti-Hitler coalition.
This didn't happen because the Poles wouldn't allow Stalin to cross their borders. But the Poles took that stance in reliance on basically lies from France/UK that they would intervene effectively to preserve Poland. Had UK/France been honest and said to Poland "Stalin's your only chance - choose between him and Hitler" then the grand coalition probably could have been sealed.
That's a far better "what if" for world history but also kind of boring militarily: Germany loses quite rapidly because (1) its economy collapses due to blockade, including Soviet/Western interference with Swedish iron ore shipments, (2) militarily it doesn't have sufficient strength to defeat France while defending against SU.
If you add US to this coalition - either actively or via more military aid - it gets easier.
WW2 should have been a relatively simple affair and Hitler just a brief crazy blip on history.
Please continue discussion of this issue here instead of in the other thread.ljadw wrote:This proves not having even an elementary knowledge of the pre war period .
1 The SU had NO intention to join a coalition against Hitler . There was no reason for them to do this .
2 France and the UK did not promise to intervene to preserve Poland .
3 The promises of Britain and France had no influence on the attitude of Poland .Poland said already no to the German demands in the winter of 1938/1939 , before the French/British guarentee .And there was no reason for Poland to accept Soviet forces in Poland .
4 France and Britain had not the power to start a big offensive in 1939 that would save Poland .
5 The influence of the Iron ore shipments from Sweden is much overestimated
6 US could not intervene in 1939 :
militarily it was powerless
more economic aid would not help and was impossible
Congress would never declare war in 1939 : proof ? There was no US DOW when Germany attacked Poland .
The foreign policy of France and Britain before the war had only one aim : preventing war, IOW appeasement .They did not need Poland that was militarily unimportant . The only reason they had to declare war was morality : they could not look the other way if Hitler attacked an other country,Poland, or an other one . They had told Hitler that he could get Poland, on the condition that it happened without war .
Hitler did not understand this .He argued as a pre WWI politician, when morality remained where its place was : locked up in a box and released when there were elections ,and locked up again the evening of the elections . Britain and France did not declare war when Italy attacked the Ottoman Empire , if Poland existed before 1914, they would also not declare war if Germany /Russia attacked Poland .