Berghof Obersalzberg

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
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Siegener Nachkomme
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Siegener Nachkomme » 28 Oct 2019 03:02

I recently found this early post-war US Army film on YouTube entitled "Bavarian Holiday" that promotes the recreation center at Königssee. I thought certain footage within in would contribute to this thread on the Berghof and Obersalzberg. (The Obersalzberg sites begin around 13:38.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSJoaFzfX8Ym

The film was uploaded to YouTube by travelfimarchive, which offers licensed footage from the film for commercial use at there website: www.travelfilmarchive.com

While the uploader gives a date of 1950, I believe it was filmed no later that spring 1947 due to the presence of Third Army soldiers featured in the film. (I believe the Third Army departed for the States in March 1947.) Of course, the Army may have released this film after that date.

Enjoy!
Matt

CPB
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by CPB » 28 Oct 2019 07:23

Thanks Geoff. The more I think about it, the more I suspect the cave itself was probably cordoned off pretty quickly from visiting GIs, which might explain the lack of any photos.

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tunix0
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by tunix0 » 28 Oct 2019 14:21

Geoff Walden wrote:
28 Oct 2019 01:18
Chris, I have not. All I have seen are views like this still from a 1945 US Army film showing soldiers from the 101st Airborne Div. unloading art from a train somewhere in the area. But this can't be in town, with that view of the Untersberg mountain in the background. I really don't know where this was taken.
Geoff
Hi Geoff,

based on the picture I would assume that this is the railway line Berchtesgaden Hbf. - Königssee, which existed until 1965.It led from the main station via today's Achenweg. The train could have stood below the mountain cemetery right next to the Ache. If I examine the view in Google Earth with direction to the Untersberg, then that fits pretty well.

Here is a comparison:
ArtTrain101stMay1945film.jpg
Zuglinie_Königssee2.jpg
Here is the approximate location:
https://goo.gl/maps/xV9vk3YqyZGVRqGv6

And here is a page about old railway lines on which the old line HBF-Königsee is mentioned:
https://www.johannes-strommer.com/eisen ... kriegszeit

Then the train would definitely not have been far away from the main train station.

Regards
Christian
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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 28 Oct 2019 17:44

Hello,
.
Here is a German documentary which shows some footage.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WstKlEprG8
Time Slot: 31:05 - 33:33
.
First you can see the "Sonderzug Göring". That train was only & especially used for that purpose. All those art objects has been carried
at the end of war from Carinhall to Berchtesgaden. And as Christian said, this picture was taken near Berchtesgaden. Göring wanted
to save his collection, but "it was to late"...
.
Second, a art-depot where many objects have been stored. I don't now where it was. In the documentary they talked about "close
to the Berghof"?!
.
And third, GIs retain art objects of Göring at Berchtesgaden / the Obersalzberg.
.
Regards,
Alvin
Last edited by Alvin Y. on 28 Oct 2019 20:24, edited 1 time in total.

CPB
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by CPB » 28 Oct 2019 18:30

Alvin, excellent footage, thank you. There’s quite a bit of that I’ve never seen before. Thanks!

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N.C. Wyeth
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by N.C. Wyeth » 28 Oct 2019 19:16

tunix0 wrote:
28 Oct 2019 14:21
based on the picture I would assume that this is the railway line Berchtesgaden Hbf. - Königssee, which existed until 1965.It led from the main station via today's Achenweg. The train could have stood below the mountain cemetery right next to the Ache. If I examine the view in Google Earth with direction to the Untersberg, then that fits pretty well.

Here is the approximate location:
https://goo.gl/maps/xV9vk3YqyZGVRqGv6

And here is a page about old railway lines on which the old line HBF-Königsee is mentioned:
https://www.johannes-strommer.com/eisen ... kriegszeit

Then the train would definitely not have been far away from the main train station.

Regards
Christian
Hey Christian - that information solved a mystery for me! I've been fascinated by the "Art" story of this period - and was just at that location back in early September, searching for another site that GW helped me find. My research told me there had been a rail line that passed the site I was searching for - but I couldn't figure out where it came through. It had to be close, as all the information I had tied two locations you see in that film together - both the LW bunker, and the rail-cars you see being unloaded. The Hotel where all the art was displayed is still up the road, not far away by car - but the fellow that made the film recalled the bunker and where the rail-cars were found being within short walking distance of each other . . . and your report on that rail line brings it all together now. I trudged down into that ravine, and found the top of the bunker . . . but walked all over the surrounding area, and couldn't find anything that looked like what could have been a rail line. Now i know what I was missing. :thumbsup: Thanks!
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 28 Oct 2019 23:45

CPB wrote:
28 Oct 2019 07:23
Thanks Geoff. The more I think about it, the more I suspect the cave itself was probably cordoned off pretty quickly from visiting GIs, which might explain the lack of any photos.
Or maybe because someone was embarrassed that the French troops had thoroughly shot up the train in that tunnel, destroying many of the artworks.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 29 Oct 2019 00:04

Alvin Y. wrote:
28 Oct 2019 17:44
Here is a German documentary which shows some footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WstKlEprG8
Time Slot: 31:05 - 33:33
Second, a art-depot where many objects have been stored. I don't now where it was. In the documentary they talked about "close
to the Berghof"?!

Regards, Alvin
This art depot was in Unterstein, the building now called the Hotel Hubertus. Of course, NOT close to the Berghof! You can find it on my webpage at
http://thirdreichruins.com/bgaden.htm#goeringart (below the tunnel photos).

Here are period maps of the railway Berchtesgaden-Königssee. I have circled the Berchtesgaden Hauptbahnhof, Unterstein, and the Königssee Bahnhof. The small red dot marks the location of the "art Bunker" detailed by N.C. Wyeth above. (More photos and details on this "art bunker," which was actually below the Luftwaffe building later called the Alpine Inn under the US Army AFRC) at http://thirdreichruins.com/bunkers.htm#luftwaffebunker.

I would imagine that the art train in the films was parked in the Unterstein area, or maybe slightly north of there, closer to the "art bunker."

Geoff
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tunix0
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by tunix0 » 29 Oct 2019 11:05

N.C. Wyeth wrote:
28 Oct 2019 19:16
Hey Christian - that information solved a mystery for me! I've been fascinated by the "Art" story of this period - and was just at that location back in early September, searching for another site that GW helped me find. My research told me there had been a rail line that passed the site I was searching for - but I couldn't figure out where it came through. It had to be close, as all the information I had tied two locations you see in that film together - both the LW bunker, and the rail-cars you see being unloaded. The Hotel where all the art was displayed is still up the road, not far away by car - but the fellow that made the film recalled the bunker and where the rail-cars were found being within short walking distance of each other . . . and your report on that rail line brings it all together now. I trudged down into that ravine, and found the top of the bunker . . . but walked all over the surrounding area, and couldn't find anything that looked like what could have been a rail line. Now i know what I was missing. :thumbsup: Thanks!
Nice and no problem! While I've read about the bunker on Geoff's website, I've never looked where it was. And now I see that I have passed it so often. :lol:

Even if not much of it can be seen today, I have to visit the bunker during my next vacation.
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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 30 Oct 2019 10:20

Hello,
.
thanks a lot Geoff, as ever great and detailed background knowledge 8-)
--
For all who interested in art, here some more information ...
.
A short footage which shows the same sequences as the "Welt-doumentary", but with comments.
(I posted the "long" documentary two days ago):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vw6JRdshU0
.
Talking about art and the Third Reich should always include the Monuments Men.
That's an interesting documentary about them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2MSmogbyC8
.
... another short footage ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-efxAUMX4U
.
And this book ought to be the "best one".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFGAsqnOSEU

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1599951509/re ... 366&sr=8-5
.
Last I would like to mention the Movie - The Monuments Men with
G. Clooney, M. Damon, B. Murray ... (I haven't seen the movie so far).
Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=felsazClWcI
.
Regards,
Alvin
.
Last edited by Alvin Y. on 30 Oct 2019 19:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by CPB » 30 Oct 2019 10:28

Great links, thanks for posting.

A couple of summers back, I was lucky enough to see in person the original 'Goering Art Collection' poster that still exists in a collection in the States. Absolutely incredible. The owner re-visited the building it hung from all those years ago and, incredibly, the hooks that once held it are still there.
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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 30 Oct 2019 22:42

Hello,
.
Just a few pictures of Obersalzberg in white gorgeousness ... such a beautiful landscape ...
Part I
.
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Last edited by Alvin Y. on 30 Oct 2019 22:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 30 Oct 2019 22:44

.
Part II
.
Regards,
Alvin
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Duane Becker
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Duane Becker » 30 Oct 2019 23:43

Alvin, when did you take these pics? Was it recently? Oct, 2019. Snow already at the Obersalzberg? Nice pics!!!

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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 31 Oct 2019 07:25

Duane Becker wrote:
30 Oct 2019 23:43
Alvin, when did you take these pics? Was it recently? Oct, 2019. Snow already at the Obersalzberg? Nice pics!!!
Hello Duane,
.
I took the pictures in February.
.
Regards,
Alivn
.

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