Berghof Obersalzberg
- Siegener Nachkomme
- Member
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 28 Oct 2019, 03:02
- Location: United States
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
I recently found this early post-war US Army film on YouTube entitled "Bavarian Holiday" that promotes the recreation center at Königssee. I thought certain footage within in would contribute to this thread on the Berghof and Obersalzberg. (The Obersalzberg sites begin around 13:38.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSJoaFzfX8Ym
The film was uploaded to YouTube by travelfimarchive, which offers licensed footage from the film for commercial use at there website: www.travelfilmarchive.com
While the uploader gives a date of 1950, I believe it was filmed no later that spring 1947 due to the presence of Third Army soldiers featured in the film. (I believe the Third Army departed for the States in March 1947.) Of course, the Army may have released this film after that date.
Enjoy!
Matt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSJoaFzfX8Ym
The film was uploaded to YouTube by travelfimarchive, which offers licensed footage from the film for commercial use at there website: www.travelfilmarchive.com
While the uploader gives a date of 1950, I believe it was filmed no later that spring 1947 due to the presence of Third Army soldiers featured in the film. (I believe the Third Army departed for the States in March 1947.) Of course, the Army may have released this film after that date.
Enjoy!
Matt
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Thanks Geoff. The more I think about it, the more I suspect the cave itself was probably cordoned off pretty quickly from visiting GIs, which might explain the lack of any photos.
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Hi Geoff,Geoff Walden wrote: ↑28 Oct 2019, 02:18Chris, I have not. All I have seen are views like this still from a 1945 US Army film showing soldiers from the 101st Airborne Div. unloading art from a train somewhere in the area. But this can't be in town, with that view of the Untersberg mountain in the background. I really don't know where this was taken.
Geoff
based on the picture I would assume that this is the railway line Berchtesgaden Hbf. - Königssee, which existed until 1965.It led from the main station via today's Achenweg. The train could have stood below the mountain cemetery right next to the Ache. If I examine the view in Google Earth with direction to the Untersberg, then that fits pretty well.
Here is a comparison: Here is the approximate location:
https://goo.gl/maps/xV9vk3YqyZGVRqGv6
And here is a page about old railway lines on which the old line HBF-Königsee is mentioned:
https://www.johannes-strommer.com/eisen ... kriegszeit
Then the train would definitely not have been far away from the main train station.
Regards
Christian
---
www.vergessener-beton.de - Gegen das Vergessen!
www.vergessener-beton.de - Gegen das Vergessen!
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Hello,
.
Here is a German documentary which shows some footage.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WstKlEprG8
Time Slot: 31:05 - 33:33
.
First you can see the "Sonderzug Göring". That train was only & especially used for that purpose. All those art objects has been carried
at the end of war from Carinhall to Berchtesgaden. And as Christian said, this picture was taken near Berchtesgaden. Göring wanted
to save his collection, but "it was to late"...
.
Second, a art-depot where many objects have been stored. I don't now where it was. In the documentary they talked about "close
to the Berghof"?!
.
And third, GIs retain art objects of Göring at Berchtesgaden / the Obersalzberg.
.
Regards,
Alvin
.
Here is a German documentary which shows some footage.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WstKlEprG8
Time Slot: 31:05 - 33:33
.
First you can see the "Sonderzug Göring". That train was only & especially used for that purpose. All those art objects has been carried
at the end of war from Carinhall to Berchtesgaden. And as Christian said, this picture was taken near Berchtesgaden. Göring wanted
to save his collection, but "it was to late"...
.
Second, a art-depot where many objects have been stored. I don't now where it was. In the documentary they talked about "close
to the Berghof"?!
.
And third, GIs retain art objects of Göring at Berchtesgaden / the Obersalzberg.
.
Regards,
Alvin
Last edited by Alvin Y. on 28 Oct 2019, 21:24, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Alvin, excellent footage, thank you. There’s quite a bit of that I’ve never seen before. Thanks!
- N.C. Wyeth
- Member
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- Joined: 08 Dec 2008, 00:00
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Hey Christian - that information solved a mystery for me! I've been fascinated by the "Art" story of this period - and was just at that location back in early September, searching for another site that GW helped me find. My research told me there had been a rail line that passed the site I was searching for - but I couldn't figure out where it came through. It had to be close, as all the information I had tied two locations you see in that film together - both the LW bunker, and the rail-cars you see being unloaded. The Hotel where all the art was displayed is still up the road, not far away by car - but the fellow that made the film recalled the bunker and where the rail-cars were found being within short walking distance of each other . . . and your report on that rail line brings it all together now. I trudged down into that ravine, and found the top of the bunker . . . but walked all over the surrounding area, and couldn't find anything that looked like what could have been a rail line. Now i know what I was missing. Thanks!tunix0 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2019, 15:21based on the picture I would assume that this is the railway line Berchtesgaden Hbf. - Königssee, which existed until 1965.It led from the main station via today's Achenweg. The train could have stood below the mountain cemetery right next to the Ache. If I examine the view in Google Earth with direction to the Untersberg, then that fits pretty well.
Here is the approximate location:
https://goo.gl/maps/xV9vk3YqyZGVRqGv6
And here is a page about old railway lines on which the old line HBF-Königsee is mentioned:
https://www.johannes-strommer.com/eisen ... kriegszeit
Then the train would definitely not have been far away from the main train station.
Regards
Christian
History is the witness that testifies to the passing of time; it illuminates reality, vitalizes memory, provides guidance in daily life, and brings us tidings of antiquity. - Cicero
- Geoff Walden
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- Location: South of the Mason-Dixon Line
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Or maybe because someone was embarrassed that the French troops had thoroughly shot up the train in that tunnel, destroying many of the artworks.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com
http://www.thirdreichruins.com
- Geoff Walden
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- Joined: 29 Mar 2002, 15:50
- Location: South of the Mason-Dixon Line
- Contact:
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
This art depot was in Unterstein, the building now called the Hotel Hubertus. Of course, NOT close to the Berghof! You can find it on my webpage atAlvin Y. wrote: ↑28 Oct 2019, 18:44Here is a German documentary which shows some footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WstKlEprG8
Time Slot: 31:05 - 33:33
Second, a art-depot where many objects have been stored. I don't now where it was. In the documentary they talked about "close
to the Berghof"?!
Regards, Alvin
http://thirdreichruins.com/bgaden.htm#goeringart (below the tunnel photos).
Here are period maps of the railway Berchtesgaden-Königssee. I have circled the Berchtesgaden Hauptbahnhof, Unterstein, and the Königssee Bahnhof. The small red dot marks the location of the "art Bunker" detailed by N.C. Wyeth above. (More photos and details on this "art bunker," which was actually below the Luftwaffe building later called the Alpine Inn under the US Army AFRC) at http://thirdreichruins.com/bunkers.htm#luftwaffebunker.
I would imagine that the art train in the films was parked in the Unterstein area, or maybe slightly north of there, closer to the "art bunker."
Geoff
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com
http://www.thirdreichruins.com
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Nice and no problem! While I've read about the bunker on Geoff's website, I've never looked where it was. And now I see that I have passed it so often.N.C. Wyeth wrote: ↑28 Oct 2019, 20:16Hey Christian - that information solved a mystery for me! I've been fascinated by the "Art" story of this period - and was just at that location back in early September, searching for another site that GW helped me find. My research told me there had been a rail line that passed the site I was searching for - but I couldn't figure out where it came through. It had to be close, as all the information I had tied two locations you see in that film together - both the LW bunker, and the rail-cars you see being unloaded. The Hotel where all the art was displayed is still up the road, not far away by car - but the fellow that made the film recalled the bunker and where the rail-cars were found being within short walking distance of each other . . . and your report on that rail line brings it all together now. I trudged down into that ravine, and found the top of the bunker . . . but walked all over the surrounding area, and couldn't find anything that looked like what could have been a rail line. Now i know what I was missing. Thanks!
Even if not much of it can be seen today, I have to visit the bunker during my next vacation.
---
www.vergessener-beton.de - Gegen das Vergessen!
www.vergessener-beton.de - Gegen das Vergessen!
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Hello,
.
thanks a lot Geoff, as ever great and detailed background knowledge
--
For all who interested in art, here some more information ...
.
A short footage which shows the same sequences as the "Welt-doumentary", but with comments.
(I posted the "long" documentary two days ago):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vw6JRdshU0
.
Talking about art and the Third Reich should always include the Monuments Men.
That's an interesting documentary about them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2MSmogbyC8
.
... another short footage ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-efxAUMX4U
.
And this book ought to be the "best one".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFGAsqnOSEU
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1599951509/re ... 366&sr=8-5
.
Last I would like to mention the Movie - The Monuments Men with
G. Clooney, M. Damon, B. Murray ... (I haven't seen the movie so far).
Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=felsazClWcI
.
Regards,
Alvin
.
.
thanks a lot Geoff, as ever great and detailed background knowledge
--
For all who interested in art, here some more information ...
.
A short footage which shows the same sequences as the "Welt-doumentary", but with comments.
(I posted the "long" documentary two days ago):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vw6JRdshU0
.
Talking about art and the Third Reich should always include the Monuments Men.
That's an interesting documentary about them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2MSmogbyC8
.
... another short footage ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-efxAUMX4U
.
And this book ought to be the "best one".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFGAsqnOSEU
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1599951509/re ... 366&sr=8-5
.
Last I would like to mention the Movie - The Monuments Men with
G. Clooney, M. Damon, B. Murray ... (I haven't seen the movie so far).
Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=felsazClWcI
.
Regards,
Alvin
.
Last edited by Alvin Y. on 30 Oct 2019, 20:06, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Great links, thanks for posting.
A couple of summers back, I was lucky enough to see in person the original 'Goering Art Collection' poster that still exists in a collection in the States. Absolutely incredible. The owner re-visited the building it hung from all those years ago and, incredibly, the hooks that once held it are still there.
A couple of summers back, I was lucky enough to see in person the original 'Goering Art Collection' poster that still exists in a collection in the States. Absolutely incredible. The owner re-visited the building it hung from all those years ago and, incredibly, the hooks that once held it are still there.
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Hello,
.
Just a few pictures of Obersalzberg in white gorgeousness ... such a beautiful landscape ...
Part I
.
.
Just a few pictures of Obersalzberg in white gorgeousness ... such a beautiful landscape ...
Part I
.
Last edited by Alvin Y. on 30 Oct 2019, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Alvin, when did you take these pics? Was it recently? Oct, 2019. Snow already at the Obersalzberg? Nice pics!!!
Re: Berghof Obersalzberg
Hello Duane,Duane Becker wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 00:43Alvin, when did you take these pics? Was it recently? Oct, 2019. Snow already at the Obersalzberg? Nice pics!!!
.
I took the pictures in February.
.
Regards,
Alivn
.