At what point did Germany lose WW2?
Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
Britain did not need the BEF to prevent a German landing : it had the RAF,the RN, the Home Forces, the Channel,each of these were sufficient to prevent a landing .
Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
As you know very well ,he said in November that an attack against Moscow starting from Smolensk had no chances to succeed .
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
Without the benefit of hindsight, no they would not. At the time they could could only make a judgement based on the information available to them together with their respective suppositions about the political and military resilience of the Soviet regime.
Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
You are now saying that what Halder said in November 1940 was nonsense ?
You forget that this ''nonsense '' was the foundation of the Barbarossa Plan .
You forget that this ''nonsense '' was the foundation of the Barbarossa Plan .
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
German generals were oblivious to logistical constraints and were trained to attack, attack, attack. Withdrawing was tantamount to admitting defeat, and they couldn't stay where they were because they were being beaten by the superior Red Army in August 1941. And Moscow seemed like a shiny object that supposedly would end all resistance if captured (this had been advocated in the First World War as well when the Bolsheviks were inciting resistance in German occupied territories under Brest-Litovsk). So of course the generals would say "Attack toward Moscow, our superior German soldiers will prevail!"
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
The German generals were also clinging to the delusion that the war could be ended in 1941, long after it had become clear that the Russians couldn't be beaten in a quick war. Moscow offered the illusory promise of ending the war then and there, whereas striking toward Kiev was tantamount to admitting that the war would go on for years. Thus, Hitler had a better grasp on reality than his generals in 1941.
Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
The preparations of Blau started already before the Soviet winteroffensive .
Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
There were sound strategic reasons to want to end the war quickly and the way to do that was going towards Moscow. Kiev would always fall later if the red army was beaten in front of AGC. Hitler certainly also wanted to win in 1941.HistoryGeek2019 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2019, 19:44The German generals were also clinging to the delusion that the war could be ended in 1941, long after it had become clear that the Russians couldn't be beaten in a quick war. Moscow offered the illusory promise of ending the war then and there, whereas striking toward Kiev was tantamount to admitting that the war would go on for years. Thus, Hitler had a better grasp on reality than his generals in 1941.
Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
Very simplistic. If the German army was beaten in august, it is very strange that it obtained the successes it did in september and october.HistoryGeek2019 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2019, 19:39German generals were oblivious to logistical constraints and were trained to attack, attack, attack. Withdrawing was tantamount to admitting defeat, and they couldn't stay where they were because they were being beaten by the superior Red Army in August 1941. And Moscow seemed like a shiny object that supposedly would end all resistance if captured (this had been advocated in the First World War as well when the Bolsheviks were inciting resistance in German occupied territories under Brest-Litovsk). So of course the generals would say "Attack toward Moscow, our superior German soldiers will prevail!"
Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
Successes which resulted in failure .Aida1 wrote: ↑05 Nov 2019, 17:22Very simplistic. If the German army was beaten in august, it is very strange that it obtained the successes it did in september and october.HistoryGeek2019 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2019, 19:39German generals were oblivious to logistical constraints and were trained to attack, attack, attack. Withdrawing was tantamount to admitting defeat, and they couldn't stay where they were because they were being beaten by the superior Red Army in August 1941. And Moscow seemed like a shiny object that supposedly would end all resistance if captured (this had been advocated in the First World War as well when the Bolsheviks were inciting resistance in German occupied territories under Brest-Litovsk). So of course the generals would say "Attack toward Moscow, our superior German soldiers will prevail!"
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
Delusional thinking that would NEVER have been tolerated in our time.
No wonder you twits always end up in unwinnable wars.
Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?
HomeForces : 1.3 million .
Canadians : 27000
Number of Germans that could land the first day : a few thousand . If they could .
Result : Britain 1-Germany 0.
End game .
Canadians : 27000
Number of Germans that could land the first day : a few thousand . If they could .
Result : Britain 1-Germany 0.
End game .