Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

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UncleBourbon
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Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by UncleBourbon » 16 Nov 2019 03:19

Having read about COMINCH-CNO Ernest Joseph King's staunch Anglophobia to the point of refusing to adopt British Naval tactics for the war, I am curious if there were other American individuals in military service with significant anti-British sentiment.

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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by Delta Tank » 21 Nov 2019 17:18

UncleBourbon wrote:
16 Nov 2019 03:19
Having read about COMINCH-CNO Ernest Joseph King's staunch Anglophobia to the point of refusing to adopt British Naval tactics for the war, I am curious if there were other American individuals in military service with significant anti-British sentiment.
What British Naval tactics did Admiral King refuse?

Mike

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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by OpanaPointer » 21 Nov 2019 17:39

UncleBourbon wrote:
16 Nov 2019 03:19
Having read about COMINCH-CNO Ernest Joseph King's staunch Anglophobia to the point of refusing to adopt British Naval tactics for the war, I am curious if there were other American individuals in military service with significant anti-British sentiment.
KIng did not stay anglophobic.
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Aber
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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by Aber » 22 Nov 2019 08:41

OpanaPointer wrote:
21 Nov 2019 17:39

KIng did not stay anglophobic.
He didn't seem to like the concept of a British Fleet in the Pacific...

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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by OpanaPointer » 22 Nov 2019 12:25

Aber wrote:
22 Nov 2019 08:41
OpanaPointer wrote:
21 Nov 2019 17:39

KIng did not stay anglophobic.
He didn't seem to like the concept of a British Fleet in the Pacific...
Logistics.
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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by ROLAND1369 » 22 Nov 2019 18:40

I believe that Kings objections were that the insertion of a fleet with nonstandard tactics, ships, equipment, electronic gear and much weaker AA defense capability was of limited value. The size and more limited aircraft capability was not worth the complication and increased logistics support from a limited force. Legitimate considerations from a military standpoint. To a lesser extent the possible missidentification of unfamiliar aircraft flown by the British, Seafires and Barracudas could lead to increased fratricide. Admitidly, the later was reduced by the large number of US aircraft, F4Us, Hellcat and TBFs, operated by the British Fleet.

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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by Buck Bradley » 29 Nov 2019 17:07

I believe that this "King was an anglophobe" meme is highly dubious at best, and the notion that he would have rejected tactics he believed would have been effective just because he viewed them as arising with the Brits is risable. King was not so much anti-Brit as he was fanatically pro U.S. Navy.

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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by OpanaPointer » 29 Nov 2019 19:23

Anyway you like it, folks.
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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 29 Nov 2019 21:23

ROLAND1369 wrote:
22 Nov 2019 18:40
I believe that Kings objections were that the insertion of a fleet with nonstandard tactics, ships, equipment, electronic gear and much weaker AA defense capability was of limited value. The size and more limited aircraft capability was not worth the complication and increased logistics support from a limited force. Legitimate considerations from a military standpoint. To a lesser extent the possible missidentification of unfamiliar aircraft flown by the British, Seafires and Barracudas could lead to increased fratricide. Admitidly, the later was reduced by the large number of US aircraft, F4Us, Hellcat and TBFs, operated by the British Fleet.
Hi,

Do you have any references for those assertions. I'm not sure that during the discussions in Sept 44 the discussions got into the details, but I'm going from Andrew Roberts book about the Combined Chiefs of Staff there - were there any internal USN appreciations on what support the British Pacific Fleet could provide?

Regards

Tom

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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by OpanaPointer » 02 Dec 2019 01:48

I have The British Pacific Fleet: The Royal Navy's Most Powerful Strike Force by David Hobbs. I'll look for the logistics issues tomorrow. I have read elsewhere that logistics was an issue, but that's from memory.
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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by OpanaPointer » 02 Dec 2019 02:15

Okay, you can browse this book in Google Books. "Logistics Support Group" and "LSG" would be good starters.
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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by OpanaPointer » 02 Dec 2019 19:00

Do we need anything else here. I can dig into my other books.
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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 03 Dec 2019 12:49

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Regards

Tom

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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by Sheldrake » 03 Dec 2019 15:16

There are personal and institutional to consider.

Admiral King may have had a personal dislike for the British. We can appear arrogant and condescending,(and that is after we lost any credible pretensions to Imperial super power status.) This graphic will strike a chord with anyone dealing with the British http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2 ... eally-mean The British were the historic enemy of the US Navy and a number of stereotypes about stuck up British aristocrats.
There were well known frictions between senior allied figures in the successful team that won in North Africa Sicily and North West Europe. Alanbrooke's diary noted a confrontation in mid 1943 between King and the British first sea Lord Pound over anti submarine

King's real competitive enemy was not the navies of foreign powers, but the US Army. WW2 would only last for four years... Geography meant that the war in the Pacific would be run by the US Navy while the war in Europe would be run by the Army. The US agreement to a Germany First strategy meant that the Army's war would in theory come first. King fought for resources for what he saw as the Navy's war against Japan, which started with Pearl Harbour.

The British CIGS Brooke met King on several occasions. In his dary entry for 20 jan 1943 he described King as "shrewd and what swollen-headed individual. His vision is mainly limited to the Pacific. Although he pays lip service to the fundamental policy that we must first defeat Germany and then turn on Japan, he fails to apply it in any problems connected to the war." Brooke also noted " as a team to have to discuss with they are friendliness itself. Although our discussions have become somewhat heated at times, yet our relations have never been strained." In an entry dated 22 May 1943 Brooke mentioned a discussion on submarine warfare which led to an altercation between King and Dudley Pound the British First sea lord.

Did King hate all Brits? Or anyone who crossed the US navy?

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Re: Anglophobic Americans in service during WWII

Post by OpanaPointer » 03 Dec 2019 17:45

This may be relevant to the discussion at hand. https://history.army.mil/html/books/001 ... ub_1-4.pdf
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