Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

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Huska
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Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#1

Post by Huska » 10 Feb 2019, 20:25

Guys I found this on the Youtube video named Nacionalna Snaga SDK.
And explanation?

Imam giving a speech?
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Screenshot_20190210-192011_YouTube.jpg
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-Huska

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#2

Post by Ivan Ž. » 12 Mar 2019, 17:38

Hello, Huska

According to a German wartime caption for a photo taken on the same occasion, the imam is calling the Muslim members of the volunteer corps to fight. (Auch die Muselmanen des Freiwilligenkorps werden von ihrem Imam zum Kampf aufgerufen = The Muslims of the volunteer corps are also called to fight, by their imam.)
64332.jpg
64332.jpg (45.92 KiB) Viewed 4202 times
Source: Cegesoma, 64332

Two more screenshots from the same newsreel:
sdkvid.jpg
sdkvid.jpg (102.75 KiB) Viewed 4184 times
sdkvid2.jpg
sdkvid2.jpg (98.92 KiB) Viewed 4183 times
Cheers,
Ivan


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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#3

Post by Huska » 12 Mar 2019, 18:22

Thanks Ivan
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-Huska

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#4

Post by Huska » 12 Mar 2019, 21:22

Hey Ivan do you have a link to this picture?
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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#5

Post by Ivan Ž. » 12 Mar 2019, 21:36

Hello again,

The Cegesoma site does not allow direct links to images.

Go to the site http://pallas.cegesoma.be/pls/opac/plsp ... l/opac.htm check "Nr Image" and search with the number I provided
Ivan Ž. wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 17:38
Source: Cegesoma, 64332
Cheers,
Ivan

Important note, to avoid possible confusion: the German wartime caption is not necessarily correct. In the footage, as far as I can tell, the imam addresses the flag bearers or the men standing behind them - and those men behind are policemen, not the corps members (the SDK members were standing on imam's right). So it's possible that the German reporter confused police with volunteer corps.
Last edited by Ivan Ž. on 12 Mar 2019, 22:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#6

Post by Huska » 12 Mar 2019, 22:02

:milwink: Thanks
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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#7

Post by Carnaro » 20 Apr 2019, 12:01

Ivan Ž. wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 21:36
Hello again,

The Cegesoma site does not allow direct links to images.

Go to the site http://pallas.cegesoma.be/pls/opac/plsp ... l/opac.htm check "Nr Image" and search with the number I provided
Ivan Ž. wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 17:38
Source: Cegesoma, 64332
Cheers,
Ivan

Important note, to avoid possible confusion: the German wartime caption is not necessarily correct. In the footage, as far as I can tell, the imam addresses the flag bearers or the men standing behind them - and those men behind are policemen, not the corps members (the SDK members were standing on imam's right). So it's possible that the German reporter confused police with volunteer corps.
Hello Ivan

Just a consideration: if we are talking about SDK, that is the volunteers emanated from Ljotic's Zbor, the presence of muslims in their ranks I think It should be quite unlikely, on the ideological bases at least. 8O 8O

Recently I have heard about a sui generis muslim-chetnik unit raised around Priboj in spring 1942 under italian aegis and with italian mediation (and $$$ :D ), But a presence of muslims with Ljotic volunteers (considering their ideological background) really seems to me astonishing.
What do You think?

Cheers
Max

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#8

Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Apr 2019, 15:55

Ahoi, Max

I think the same, which is why I added that note in my last post:
Ivan Ž. wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 21:36
Important note, to avoid possible confusion: the German wartime caption is not necessarily correct. In the footage, as far as I can tell, the imam addresses the flag bearers or the men standing behind them - and those men behind are policemen, not the corps members (the SDK members were standing on imam's right). So it's possible that the German reporter confused police with volunteer corps.
But I'm also never excluding a possibility that there's something I never heard about, that is, recruiting Muslims into the corps. If there was an attempt to recruit the Orthodox into the Muslim SS division, "Handschar" (which failed though), why wouldn't they recruit the Muslims into the Serbian corps. There's a saying: all Zbor members were volunteers, but not all volunteers were Zbor members. Meaning, there were various kinds of people accepted into the volunteer corps.

Another note: as I previously wrote, there were policemen standing behind the flag bearers; but that's earlier in the film. When the imam starts his address, there seems to be no one standing behind them - that is, it seems that the imam addressed the flag bearers after all.
sdkvid0.png
sdkvid0.png (191.51 KiB) Viewed 3969 times
sdkvid1.jpg
sdkvid1.jpg (102.78 KiB) Viewed 3969 times
sdkvid3.png
sdkvid3.png (187.81 KiB) Viewed 3969 times
Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#9

Post by Ivan Ž. » 13 Feb 2020, 19:23

The footage & photo were taken on 1 January 1944, during the oath of allegiance of the Serbian armed forces. The imam was surely there for the Muslim members of the forces. (The same was practised in the multi-religious Royal Yugoslav Army: the Orthodox, Catholics and Muslims took an oath before their own priests.)

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Ivan

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#10

Post by FlyingStukas » 21 Feb 2020, 02:29

Great work on the info Ivan,

Boy would I love to know what kind of propaganda speech did he give! Must have been playing the devil's advocate being in the role of an imam in the SDK.

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Filip

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#11

Post by Ivan Ž. » 21 Feb 2020, 02:37

FlyingStukas wrote:
21 Feb 2020, 02:29
...an imam in the SDK.
Bare in mind that it was an oath of the Serbian armed forces: SDS/SDK... The imam was surely there for the Muslims of all branches of the forces.

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Ivan

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#12

Post by FlyingStukas » 21 Feb 2020, 02:41

Ivan Ž. wrote:
21 Feb 2020, 02:37
FlyingStukas wrote:
21 Feb 2020, 02:29
...an imam in the SDK.
Bare in mind that it was an oath of the Serbian armed forces: SDS/SDK... The imam was surely there for the Muslims of all branches of the forces.

Cheers,
Ivan
With an estimated size of 10,000 in 1944 (?), I wonder how many Muslims were present at the time. Still interesting that an imam was present.

Filip

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#13

Post by Ivan Ž. » 08 Nov 2022, 02:06

Ivan Ž. wrote:
13 Feb 2020, 19:23
The footage & photo were taken on 1 January 1944, during the oath of allegiance of the Serbian armed forces. The imam was surely there for the Muslim members of the forces. (The same was practised in the multi-religious Royal Yugoslav Army: the Orthodox, Catholics and Muslims took an oath before their own priests.)
The info found in Obnova newspaper dated 3 January 1944 (p. 3) completes and confirms the previously posted info and assumption.

The forces that swore an oath on 1 January 1944 in Belgrade were:
- Serbian State Guard (Srpska državna straža)
- Serbian Volunteer Corps (Srpski dobrovoljački korpus)
- Serbian Border Guard (Srpska granična straža)
- Serbian Guard (Srpska garda)
- Fire Department (Požarna komanda) with Volunteer Fire Company (Dobrovoljna vatrogasna četa)

The ceremony took place in the courtyard of the Belgrade City Administration's Police School. A quote, from the aforementioned newspaper: "After the oath of the Orthodox members of the Serbian armed forces, the oath of the members of the Catholic and Mohammedan faiths was carried out." Meaning that the filmed and photographed imam was indeed there for all of the oath-taking Muslims, just like there was a Catholic priest for the Catholics. Both groups were minorities in the forces, and were only mentioned in that one sentence in the (extensive) press article.

However, the Germans, who led a pro-Muslim campaign at the time (and also loved taking pictures of exotic people), of all priests gave the imam the publicity, making him one of the "stars of the show". In reality, he was there briefly, for a small number of people - following the tradition of the pre-war Yugoslavia. The Obnova newspaper never mentioned his nor the Catholic priest's names (both being less relevant) in their otherwise detailed text, which listed all of the high officials attending the ceremony, including the Orthodox priests who conducted the main part of the oath. The German newsreel, on the other hand, shows none of the Christian priests, being irrelevant for their propaganda campaigns.

Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#14

Post by Kurtsuljo » 23 Nov 2022, 00:47

Watching the newsreel i don't think the policemen that were behind the flag bearers were Muslim as during the newsreel you Can see them For a second move their hands in the shape of a cross that's probably why they weren't there when the imam was giving a speech as for the flag bearers i believe they might be muslims although please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Imam, Hodža on the parade of the SDK

#15

Post by Ivan Ž. » 23 Nov 2022, 01:56

Just because the imam was filmed standing in front of the flag bearers, it doesn't mean they're Muslim. There's no footage of the Christian priests, who likely stood before the flag bearers as well, at one point or another. Again, the main body of the oath-taking men were Orthodox, with a minor number of Catholics and Muslims, who served in unnamed forces (who knows, maybe they were among the firefighters). Guesswork based on the short German footage is a waste of time. Furthermore, flags were considered sacred and they would hardly be given to minorities and members of other religions to carry them (especially a Christian flag, like the one of the SDK, would hardly be carried by a Muslim, of all people).

Good night,
Ivan

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