Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

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trespasser07
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#121

Post by trespasser07 » 09 Oct 2012, 14:46

Waht would have happened to Dr Ley had he not commited suicide. How high was he on the agenda for the Nuremberg defendants?

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"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

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Adam Carr
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#122

Post by Adam Carr » 11 Oct 2012, 17:55

He hanged himself in his cell at Nuremberg after receiving the indictment. Had he not done so, he would undoubtedly have been convicted and hanged.


J. Duncan
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#123

Post by J. Duncan » 11 Oct 2012, 21:21

Ley was in a situation very much like Streicher...he was a propagandist and fanatic for Nazism and made some very inflamatory speeches publicly calling for the extermination of the Jews ("jude muss sterben!"). In captivity, he made a very poor impression (which would have not suited him well had he been tried - Göring was relieved he had committed suicide because his testimony would have caused the die-hards great embarrassment - "Im glad he's gone. We wouldn't be able to predict how he would behave at trial. He was always giving such bombastic speeches!")...sobbing, proclaiming his innocence, stammering insults at his accusers (Ley had a stutter), he wandered aimlessly around his cell having spiritual seances with his dead wife. He wrote a "political testament" of sorts, explaining to the german people that a new understanding with the Jews must be reached. His chronic alcoholism destroyed the reasoning part of his brain (we would call it "wet brain" today). After he died, they autopsied his brain and found his frontal lobes had pickled to half their normal size.
Source: "22 Cells in Nuremberg" by Douglas M. Kelley
"Nuremberg Diary" by G. M . Gilbert
"Justice at Nuremberg" by Robert E. Conot
"Robert Ley: Hitler's labor Front Leader" by Ronald Smelser
Hitler liked his labor minister, despite all his failings as a human being, calling him "my greatest idealist". Ley was a notorious drunkard, noted by friends and foes alike. He was also corrupt, lining his pockets with huge sums of cash from his many ministry slush funds which he spent lavishly on himself and his young wife Inge. Ley came from a very large family of poor farmers, but he worked his way up through university, becoming a Phd (in chemistry?). He was a WWI vet, a flier who crashed and suffered injury to his head. A fighter during the "kampzeit" years, he beat-up social democrats and suffered further injuries to his head from flying beer mugs. Hitler made him Gauleiter of Cologne. At the end of the war, he was calling for total war with Goebbels and giving lip service to all sort of crack notions like inflicting "death rays" on the enemy. Speer referred to these in his memoirs as "Ley fairy tales".

Below is a short clip from youtube showing Ley talking to a reporter for early television service:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX3t3xaPZXg

J. Duncan
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#124

Post by J. Duncan » 12 Oct 2012, 10:57

LIFE magazine article on Ley's brain:

http://books.google.com/books?id=hUgEAA ... in&f=false

Article says the brain matter atrophied from "unknown causes" but chronic alcoholism or "wet brain" should definately be considered as his drinking was legendary.

One story about Ley's drinking was told in the book "Caesar's In Goosestep" by Norman Bayles. Bayles met Ley on one of his cruise ships and when he visited Ley's cabin, Ley was still drunk from the night before. One of his adjudants had to be carried out as he was so drunk and stumbling. The cabin smelled of leftover salami wurst, alcohol, and cigar smoke. Ley had a bandage on his hand from a broken cognac bottle and his uniform was stained and spattered with blood and food stains. A coffee table was covered with empty bottles and dirty ash trays and when Bayles sat down, Ley simply swept everything onto the floor "with a wave of a bloody hand". "Mr. Americano! Welcome!"

trespasser07
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#125

Post by trespasser07 » 12 Oct 2012, 12:01

Very interesting!! I wonder would be have face dthe death penalty at Nuremberg, like JD said he was like Streicher regarding propaganda, although I personally think not as repellant as Streicher as a man.

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"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

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Adam Carr
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#126

Post by Adam Carr » 12 Oct 2012, 16:37

He suffered a brain injury in World War I, and his drinking and his stammer both followed on from that. He was a violent drunken bully, and drove his wife to suicide by humiliating her in public. But of course he wasn't on trial for his personal character, but for his public acts.

The indictment said of him:
The Defendant LEY between 1932 and 1945 was: A member of the Nazi Party, Reichsleiter, Nazi Party Organization Manager, member of the Reichstag, leader of the German Labor Front, a General in the SA, and Joint Organizer of the Central Inspection for the Care of Foreign Workers. The Defendant LEY used the foregoing positions, his personal influence, and his intimate connection with the Fuehrer in such a manner that: He promoted the accession to power of the Nazi conspirators and the consolidation of their control over Germany as set forth in Count One of the Indictment; he promoted the preparation for war set forth in Count Two of the Indictment; he authorized, directed, and participated in the War Crimes set forth in Count Three of the Indictment, and in the Crimes against Humanity set forth in Count Four of the Indictment, including particularly the War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity relating to the abuse of human beings for labor in the conduct of the aggressive wars.
If he had stood trial, he probably would have been acquitted under Count Two - I don't think he had anything to do with planning the war. He might have been aquitted under Count Three. But he would certainly have been convicted and hanged under Count Four, because of his involvement in the slave labour program, in which he was just as guilty as Sauckel. So was Speer, of course, but Speer was a cunning liar from an upper-class background, so he impressed the court and got off lightly.

Michal78
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#127

Post by Michal78 » 04 Apr 2020, 19:26

A photo of Ley in his SA uniform. Karl Florian behind him.
Michal
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Mark Costa
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#128

Post by Mark Costa » 04 Apr 2020, 20:53

Michal:

Actually that is an NSFK uniform. Ley held ranks in the NSFK as well. See the NSFK eagle on the right breast and NSFK dagger.

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Erich2019
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#129

Post by Erich2019 » 04 Apr 2020, 21:24

Great pic Michael, thanks for posting! Mark, was his final NSFK rank a Gruppenfuehrer or Obergruppenfuehrer?

Erich

Mark Costa
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#130

Post by Mark Costa » 04 Apr 2020, 21:53

Erich:

Obergruppenfuehrer

Mark Costa

Michal78
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#131

Post by Michal78 » 04 Apr 2020, 22:00

Thanks, Mark for the correction. Sometimes I m puzzled wheather I am looking at the SA or NSFK uniform.
Michal

mattyboy
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#132

Post by mattyboy » 05 Apr 2020, 12:36

Here is another photo of Ley, with Theodor Croneiss.
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Mark Costa
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#133

Post by Mark Costa » 05 Apr 2020, 16:22

mattyboy wrote:
05 Apr 2020, 12:36
Here is another photo of Ley, with Theodor Croneiss.
Josef Bosbach in SS uniform behind Ley.

Mark Costa

JoeW
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#134

Post by JoeW » 06 Apr 2020, 04:24

Nice photo of Croneiss, anothter WWI airman like Ley.

Was Bosbach Ley's RSD bodyguard at the time?

Mark Costa
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Re: Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

#135

Post by Mark Costa » 06 Apr 2020, 20:04

JoeW wrote:
06 Apr 2020, 04:24
Nice photo of Croneiss, anothter WWI airman like Ley.

Was Bosbach Ley's RSD bodyguard at the time?
No Bosbach was a member of Ley's staff and was not a member of the RSD.

Mark Costa

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